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Piston orientation - why?

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  • #16
    My experience only goes back sixty years or so, but the clearance was always in the piston. The cylinder is bored to the specified diameter and the piston should be correspondingly smaller to provide the specified clearance.

    Back in the bad old days, Studebaker and Packard machining lines couldn't hold a tolerance and neither could piston manufacturers. After the blocks were bored and honed, they were measured and a letter code corresponding to a dimension was stamped on the bottom edge of the cylinder. Pistons were measured and put into boxes with corresponding letter codes. The short block assembler looked at the letter codes and chose the matching pistons. Today, pistons are CNC finished and are dead nuts on diameter and weight. Even though they're usually dead on, we will never bore a block without having the pistons on the bench to confirm their diameter.

    None of us wants to admit how sloppy production tolerances were back when, but we're working with a NOS Champion block and the cylinders vary .003". Today, when we're honing the block, each cylinder is finished the same diameter within .0002".​

    Again, how crude we were back when, Studebaker Shop Manuals assumed small dealerships and repair shops would not have micrometers, so they don't specifiy piston-to-wall dimensions. Sometimes, look at the Shop Manual photos, showing using a long feeler gauge and a fish scale to measure drag as an estimate of the clearance.

    As to cylinder wall finishes, how smooth and/or how rough cannot be discussed without specifying which rings are to be used. Cast iron, chrome and moly rings each have a different cylinder surface finish specification. Again, today is better; we use diamond abrasives and power stroke machines to produce round cylinders with the proper texture. When the cylinders are properly finished, rings seat immediately.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

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    • #17
      So I read the question and answer this way, correctly I hope:
      "Is the clearance applied, standard in the industry either to the block or the pistons?"

      Quote Jack V:

      "Today, pistons are CNC finished and are dead nuts on diameter and weight. Even though they're usually dead on, we will never bore a block without having the pistons on the bench to confirm their diameter.​"

      SO, the simple answer is: the BORE Nowadays, always gets the clearance, since Pistons are exactly .030 oversize, or whatever size is needed.
      StudeRich
      Second Generation Stude Driver,
      Proud '54 Starliner Owner
      SDC Member Since 1967

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      • #18
        A hundred years ago, my automotive engineering professor told us manufacturers were using the cylinder bore to crankshaft offset to reduce piston slap noise. This makes me wonder:
        -Were the studebaker cylinder bores in line with the crank? or off-center?
        -perhaps the offset pistons were only for the non offset cylinder bores?
        -Would Studebaker (or any manufacturer) have used in combination both offset piston pins and offset cylinder bores?
        Slightly off subject, for the non VW folks, the old VW air cooled opposed engine used axially offset connecting rods. This allows the opposed connecting rods (which shares the same crank journal) to be in the center of the piston axially. If my memory is correct, the VW also had their opposed cylinders in line with the crank. Not sure if the piston pins were offset, but they did have an orientation arrow.

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        • #19
          Therefore is it true that the blocks are round and the pistons are not round, however expand to round when hot?
          Is measuring a piston and the applied clearance a technical process? What is the optimum temperature to measure a piston and is there a special process? To measure piston to cylinder wall clearance should the assembly be warm or cold?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by StudeRich View Post
            So I read the question and answer this way, correctly I hope:
            "Is the clearance applied, standard in the industry either to the block or the pistons?"

            Quote Jack V:

            "Today, pistons are CNC finished and are dead nuts on diameter and weight. Even though they're usually dead on, we will never bore a block without having the pistons on the bench to confirm their diameter.​"

            SO, the simple answer is: the BORE Nowadays, always gets the clearance, since Pistons are exactly .030 oversize, or whatever size is needed.
            Rich, better research that. Not nowadays, but always has been, the BORE is always to diameter and the pistons are finished undersize to the specificed clearannce.

            jack vines

            PackardV8

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            • StudeRich
              StudeRich commented
              Editing a comment
              OK, I guess I was going off of your "Today" statement, which of course does NOT refer to the clearance, only the accuracy of the today's Piston size.

          • #21
            Done fixing the pinch bolts. Swapped the ones around that had the nuts on the wrong side to the correct side. Ditched the black nuts and decided to go with a serrated flanged standard steel nut. Brand new set of pinch bolts. Put a little blue Loctite on the threads. Tapped, torqued and repeated all several times to 28ft-lbs. as per the manual. Seems to be no orientation on the pistons, so left those as were.

            From this, wrong:
            Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_1884.jpg Views:	0 Size:	77.6 KB ID:	2067277


            to this, for better or worse, at least the nut is on the correct side of the rod. And I know for sure it is at the proper 28ft-lbs.
            Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_1885.jpg Views:	0 Size:	125.4 KB ID:	2067278


            .
            Last edited by M-Webb; 08-17-2025, 12:49 PM.

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            • #22
              Make sure the oil squirt hole in the bearing lines up with the hole in the rod.
              Bez Auto Alchemy
              573-318-8948
              http://bezautoalchemy.com


              "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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              • M-Webb
                M-Webb commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for the tip. Yes, they do. I also ran a little wire through them to make sure they are clear, not clogged up.
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