Valve Guide Seals?

[Hawklover]

"overhauled" is a nebulous concept. One can make the case on a seldom-driven hobby car, as long as it will run, a bit of smoke doesn't hurt anything. On the other hand, labor to R&R is a big expense, so while in there, we don't patch; all new wear parts fitted to spec.

I can't remember the last Studebaker V8 we've torn down and found cylinders which would be within tolerance for standard rings. Could happen, but these are now more than sixty years old. If new standard rings were installed in tapered cylinders, there will be blow-by into the crankcase.

Also, valves and valve guides usually are worn beyond spec for re-use. We always replace them. On a running engine, the real test for valve-to-guide clearance and for valve stem seals is on deceleration. That's where the vacuum signal is strongest. When the engine is warm, go down a steep hill and then accelerate at the bottom. If the guildes are too loose, there will be a big puff of blue smoke. If no hill available, drop down one gear from top, run up to about 3,000 RPM, let off the accelerator until speed drops to about 20 MPH and accelerate. Again, watch for smoke.

To verify cyllnder condition and ring seal, both a compression test and a leak-down test will tell the tale.

jack vines

You know Jack, I love to read all of your comments, even at 75 I continue to be educated:-) But...........candidly reading this sort of brought back too many caustic feelings. As I have previously mentioned, in 1995 I had the engine and 4-speed trans in my Avanti "re-built" The car had apx. 95k miles. Since this was a very well known Studebaker facility I left everything in their hands. The block was never sent out to be "hot tanked"...standard sized rings were fitted as I was told the cylinders did not present with "significant" ware, cam bearings were not changed, as I was told there was no need to, the heads were sent out to be machined, new SS valves were used with a three angle valve grind, rockers were machined, rods machined, original cam re-used, hardened valve seats not used, (despite my request for same.) I do not have the repair parts paperwork handy at present, but the experience was not a total 'joy' That being said, the car now has just about 25K miles on her since re-build. She has excellent oil pressure, burns no oil, and does not smoke. They did not utilize the standard Studebaker valve stem seals, but something far greater..........I just do not remember what they are called. And one more point,having purchased the car in 1966 with 30k miles, I have since then changed oil and filter at no more than 1K miles, and candidly every year even if the car was driven a few hundred miles. Maybe this kind of anal behavior preserved many aspects of my engine internally.

[StudeRich]

The very common in the Day valve seal "improvement" was the installation of "Perfect Seal" valve stem seals by I believe, Perfect Circle Piston Rings Co.

These required machining the top of the Valve Guides to install, so not for everyone due to cost and using a Machine Shop.
They had a "reputation" of causing Too dry and rapid wear on Valve Guides.

[StudeRich]

Nowadays, much improved soft seals designed for very High temp. Turbo Engine use, such as the 1985 Mercury XR7, Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe and Turbo Mustang 2.3 4 Cyl. and others are available, better and cost less.
These just drop on to replace the original Umbrella Seals. .

[solar]

Nice to know on the seals. Thank you.

[JoeHall]

For the most recent 289 build, I got a set of the blue viton seals from {oil Harris.

[JoeHall]

I meant to say PHIL HARRIS above. Whatever the lesson someone is perhaps trying to teach someone else here by removing the edit function, the idea should be revisited. IMHO

[fastjohnll]

I have a few extra sets of the Ford turbo seals. $15 plus shipping.

[christophe]

The very common in the Day valve seal "improvement" was the installation of "Perfect Seal" valve stem seals by I believe, Perfect Circle Piston Rings Co.

These required machining the top of the Valve Guides to install, so not for everyone due to cost and using a Machine Shop.
They had a "reputation" of causing Too dry and rapid wear on Valve Guides.

FYI, the only tool needed to install Perfect Circle valve seals was the VST.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364244986139

There were several models, though.

[Hawklover]

I checked my old invoices, the shop utilized "lock-type" valve-stem seals.

[solar]

I am still thinking about this, smoked pretty bad on startup, the other day motor was at normal temperature. I guess you can change the seals out with the motor in the car with the correct tools. Is that correct? Thank you.

[PackardV8]

I am still thinking about this, smoked pretty bad on startup, the other day motor was at normal temperature. I guess you can change the seals out with the motor in the car with the correct tools. Is that correct? Thank you.

Yes, with the correct tools, new umbrella seals can be installed in frame.

jack vines

[r1lark]

I am still thinking about this, smoked pretty bad on startup, the other day motor was at normal temperature. I guess you can change the seals out with the motor in the car with the correct tools. Is that correct? Thank you.

solar, here is a video where I replaced the valve stem seals on my '64 Daytona's 259. The engine was on a stand, but the procedure would be no different as with the engine in the car:

[solar]

Thank you both for the help I have watched this video, I could not find the recommended seals or the tool.

[mbstude]

Do you know if the recent "Overhaul" job would have included New Valve Stem Seals?
Even a Valve Job, always includes that.
There is No way they would need changing after 536 Miles.

On a yet to be broken in Engine, the likely cause of Blue Oil Smoke would be the Rings that are not worn in yet, especially if Chrome Rings were used, I would never use those except on a fresh Re-Bored Block.

I think Rich nailed it on the first response to this thread. The engine isn't broken in yet, just drive it.

[r1lark]

Thank you both for the help I have watched this video, I could not find the recommended seals or the tool.

Seals for the Studebaker can be sourced from any of the larger Studebaker vendors; the ones I used are a little better than the OEM style that the vendors have but aren't that much better that you "have to" use them. The tool is an older K-D that works good on the Stude, there are several on eBay for around $17, but there are a lot of different style generic valve spring compressors that you can get new that do the same thing.

[solar]

Thanks for the advice and the tool information, I will just keep an eye on for now.