Transmission / Overdrive: 3 speed trans not holding 1st gear

[Ottoparts]

Good day folks.
I got new to me Hawk moving. Fresh gas, oil, misc. fluids. Went through the braking system and now shes stops too.
However first test drive wasn't bad but not great either. Car has orginal 3 speed with OD. It will not hold 1st gear. Pops it out of gear almost instantly. Even when I try to firmly hold it in gear, it aggressively pushes itself out of gear.
My question are:
1) Is this a common problem and if so,
2) is this a linkage issue?
or is it
3) internal transmission issue

Thank you

[JoeHall]

I would check the linkage to insure it is going all the ay into gear. If so, and still popping out when under load, I'd R&R the transmission, and expect to replace just about every component inside: seals, gaskets, bearings, synchronizers, bushings, and any worn / chipped gears. Also, double check bell housing alignment with the engine before reinstalling the transmission. Before removal, I'd use 2nd and 3rd gear to limp it around and determine if the OD is working as it should.

Better yet, toss the wimpy T86 transmission and install a T89, T85, or T10. Or convert to an a 1980s-1990s vintage GM-AOD transmission.

[Ottoparts]

I do have plenty of T5's laying around. The research has started!

[6hk71400]

Hi Chris,

MY take on this: Since your cars original engine was replace with the 1963 289, the bell housing was not dial indicated when the engine and transmission were mated to each other. Studebaker did not have a transmission mount and relied on the bell housing to hold the transmission in place. This is critical; if the bell housing is not dialed in, the alignment is out and this will cause the transmission to pop out of gear on standard transmissions and the flex plate to crack on automatic transmission.

You can dial indicate with the engine/transmission in the car if you have a car lift. You can hold the engine up with a hoist, remove the rear mount, remove the transmission and then use the dial indicator.

It might be easier to remove the the engine/transmission the dial indicate the bell housing. Anytime the bell housing is removed, it must be dial indicated. One thing; if you have to replace the rear main seal, this would be a good time to do so.

Just a FYI, any technical question you have, place the question is the Tech section of the forum. Realignment of the trans/engine will probably clear up any problems with the transmission popping out of gear.

[Ottoparts]

Thank you for the direction. Going forward I will make sure that me tech inquires go into the Tech section.

[6hk71400]

Chris,

As a follow up, I went to the shop manual and found in the clutch section the method to dial indicate your bell housing. Now , the manual did give information that is the runout exceeds .006, the housing must be replaced. Pages 2 and 3 on the clutch section of the shop manual give instructions. If you do not have a shop manual, several of our Studebaker Vendors have them available. All the vendors provide good service but I use Russ Ware of Studebaker Parts in Gilbert, AZ because he is close by and is happy to answer question I have. 2 days after I order the parts are at home.

Joe Hall gives excellent advice. Joe drives his cars on a daily basis. For what it's worth, try by the simple way of checking and if that does not solve the problem, then go do a complete rebuilt as followed by Joe. First find the problem then go accordingly. The main thing is: get the car on the road to enjoy

[Ottoparts]

I do have a shop manual on order from Russ as well. I hope to get the car up on the lift this weekend and look into the linkage. Thank you for your help.

[Skip Lackie]

Checking/adjusting the shift linkage is easy to do and does not require anything more complicated than disconnecting the shift rods from the trans. Do that first --- it might solve the problem.

[Ottoparts]

Yeah, I hope to be able to put it up on the lift this weekend and check the linkage first. I hoping I get lucky and that is all it needs.

[StudeRich]

It is quite likely that you have an Off center condition between the Engine Crankshaft and the Centerline of the Bell Housing.
I know that because I remembered a recent post asking for '57 Hawk Engine I.D. It turns out it WAS yours, and your Engine is Not original to the Car..

https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....3255-engine-id

It would be very rare Nowadays that everyone changing Engines would Think to read the Shop Manual or even Have one, to find that this procedure is critical on Studebaker Non-factory Dialed-in Engine to Bell Housing combos.

So whatever Trans. you decide to use if used with that Housing, Will likely have a problem.

[Ottoparts]

Judging by the engine mounts and dirt/grim on everything, the swap was performed many moons ago. I will adjust the linkage first and go from there.

[gjamesk]

If I were you, I'd replace all the rubber mounts first. You might be surprised how much the engine may have shifted on collapsed mounts, affecting the linkage adjustment.

[Ottoparts]

gjmaesk, i had read about that was well and have now have some on order. Thank you for your help.

[Jeffry Cassel]

Just like they said. Check mounts--if bad replace. Then adjust linkage so that it is perfect. If the problem persists, you will have to remove the transmission. With trans out you can dial indicate the bellhousing. Take time--do it right as it is very important. This is a common problem caused by wear and tear. You could get by with a small parts kit but I suspect you might need to replace a gear or two. Not that difficult. Replace shaft if any wear. Or just hold it in gear 'til you shift to 2nd! What kind of oil do you have in it?? I have had really bad luck using synthetics--you need to use exactly what the book says--there is a reason for it. A 3spd OD is a sweet transmission!

[Ottoparts]

New bushing are on the way. I'll keep everyone posted.

[Ottoparts]

New bushing are on the way. I'll keep everyone posted.

[yeroldad]

Otto, if you have "plenty of T5's around", and your trans needs rebuilt, you might want to look into putting one of the T5's in. It's work, but what good things aren't? There is a thread here on the forum about doing just that. I put one in my '53 Commander and I love it. Virtually no trans noise, easy shifting (I have the short shift kit on it) and in 5th, the motor is at about 2200rpm @ 65mph, with 3:31 gears, 205/70/15 radials. There is a kit for the swap, from Phil Harris. It's not everything you need but it does have enough to get the trans installed, sans the rear mount, Z-bar, etc. Some of the bolts in the kit were too short, but that was an easy remedy. His kits are for the Ford pattern T5. I have a t86 trans with OD I'd give to ya, if you want to pay the shipping. I know 1st gear and second is good, and it was supposedly rebuilt, but 3rd gear syncro is messed up, making it near impossible to get in 3rd.

[Ottoparts]

Yeah, I've got 5 Ford T5s and one broken TKO 600 laying around. Thank you for that offer. I may need to take you up on it.

[Ottoparts]

I haven't quit. I've been traveling for work and have yet to get under the hawk. I do have all the bushings I need. I'll give an update once this is done and linkage is adjusted.

[jackb]

The Hawks (and your engine) came with a nice 289 . If it is in good service, many drivers start out in 2nd gear like the automatic cars. Even with my good 259 and 3.07 R/A, my car starts fine in 2nd gear. If on a hill, or if I want to really step out, I start in "L" , then shift to "D". My car loves the upshift at 5-7 mph !

[Ottoparts]

Unfortunately my driveway is sloped and so is my side road to/from the house to/from the shop.

[gordr]

As already suggested, check motor mounts, and transmission, and replace those that are failed. I doubt it is an eccentric bell housing problem, as that would be most likely to affect third gear, with the input shaft being slightly off-axis to the main shaft. Jumping out of first gear is usually a sign of worn gears. Remember, in the T86 (and T96), first gear actually slides along the spline on the mainshaft, to mesh either with its mate on the cluster gear, or with the reverse idler gear. No synchronizers! Once the teeth on the first-reverse slider gear are worn to 1/4 to 1/3 of their depth, the transmission is going to want to jump out of gear. You will need to replace both the slider gear, and the cluster gear. Overhaul the transmission, in other words.

Now, misadjusted linkage, and worn transmission mounts can accelerate the wear on those gears, and initiate the problem, but once the gears become worn, they stay worn, regardless if other repairs are made.