Transmission / Overdrive: T-5 tranny behind 259

[Rafe Hollister]

I have an 88 Camaro IROC T-5 transmission that I would like to put in my '56/259 PowerHawk. I bought my car a few years ago with a 3 on floor, top loading 3 spd manual, and overdrive.
1) Is there an adapter to bolt up the GM tranny to the Stude Bellhousing?
1) Are there adapters to connect GM output to Stude driveshaft?

I haven't started measuring stuff yet so no idea right now on length of T-5 vs 3spd/OD. And my shop got a bit flooded from recent rains, so I'm not climbing under tonight.

Thanks,
Rafe Hollister

PS Why do I want to do this?
I) My car has had the OD stuff 'manualized' (a lever and a toggleswitch). It sometimes takes a while for it to find reverse. And sometimes makes funny sounds.
2) I hate waiting 2 seconds between gears.
3) The gearing of the version of T-5 that I have is a smidge lower in 1st and a touch higher in 5th than 3rd OD.
(1st gear, 3,000 rpm I calculated 3spd is 27mph, T-5 is 24mph. 3rd OD is 100mph, T'5 is 110mph.)

[r1lark]

Rafe, there have been a lot of threads here about putting these transmissions in a Studebaker. Have you tried the search function on this forum? I put 'T-5' in the search box and got 17 pages of hits. Easy research.

Just by looking at the thread titles, there are a lot of discussions about Camaro versus S-10 versus Mustang T-5 transmissions, the pros and cons of each; the best bellhousing to use, etc.

[Rafe Hollister]

I did try a search, r1Lark. I usually try a search before I post, but typically can't find the specific info that I am looking for. I searched "T-5", I got 17 pages of hits, 15 threads per page. I wade thru a bunch of them, none are mating one to a Stude V8, doesn't make sense. I expect my answers might be in there some where, but after trying several different searches (T-5 on Studebaker v8, etc...) I give up and do a post.
Rafe

[r1lark]

OK Rafe, understand.

Here are some links but most of them reference using the Ford T-5......................................
Check this one out: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....Provincial-SW=

Here is a link to Dan Giblin's T-5 adapter, but I understand he is not making these any more: https://www.studebaker-info.org/Tech.../giblint5.html
Another link to Dan Giblin's adapter: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....ed-adapter-kit

Here is something from the SDC Tech area: https://studebakerdriversclub.com/wp...ebaker-V-8.pdf

Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker did have a kit for a T-5 to Studebaker V8, contact him at: STUDE6@YAHOO.COM
Phil has a website here: https://www.fairbornstudebaker.com/ but there isn't any info on the website about the T-5 adapter.

Here is a thread that has a lot of info on T-5s from Mustangs, S-10s, Camaros, etc: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....2-hawk-4-speed

Summary: I believe your best bet is to contact Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker and discuss this with him. Many of the T-5 adaptions to a Studebaker V8 have been Ford T-5s. Some GM T-5s have been done, but many of them apparently used the two-year only ('61-'62) Studebaker 4-speed bellhousing with the GM trans bolt pattern.

[Rafe Hollister]

Lots of stuff to read. But I just wanted a simple answer, not to get my self educated! I will call fairborn.
Rafe

[yeroldad]

I just did a T5 swap into my '53 Commander. '56 289 motor. Used Phil Harris's kit. I don't remember the specific bell housing I used, but I got it from Jack Vines in Spokane WA. One thing necessary is to make sure the bell housing is perfectly centered, or you will have problems with the trans. And, Phils kit has too short of bolts, so I had to use others, no big deal. The driveshaft I used was out of a friends pile. It was a perfect length, and it takes the 365 U-joint, what the Dana 44 uses. It is a Ford T5. The tricky part was the clutch mechanism. And the shifter on a Ford T5 is set is set way back. It just barely touches the seat, and I'm going to have to modify the seat so my wife can drive it, she can't reach the pedals, even before the swap with the seat all the way forward. It's perfect for me. If you have bucket seats, it should be good. The trans hangs off the bell housing, and I didn't like that, so I made a crossmember and used rubber block for the mount The trans, with the kit, sits just a bit out of level, no big deal. The S10 trans doesn't shift as nice, 'clunky', but I'm told that the S10 tail housing will fit, and the shifter is about 8" forward of the Ford T5. Way too far for my satisfaction. I also put a quick shift on it. I put a 3:31 limited slip rear end in it at the same time. I have 215 tires on it. 5 gear isn't for below about 65-75 mph, the motor is at too low a rpm and it doesn't like it. I'm putting on 205 tires and might still have to put steeper gears in it the rear end also. I love the way it shifts, quick and smooth. 1st gear is plenty low and it gets moving real quick. I did post about the swap. Maybe you can find it. I have a hell of a time getting around the SDC sight.

[Rafe Hollister]

I have bucket seats, so shifter should be fine. Why can't I use my Stude bell housing and clutch? I will have to have the 1st drive shaft shortened 6" , there is a drive shaft shop in my town, and perhaps they can weld on the right Ujoint to match the tranny. Mine is a GM T-5. I have 3.73s so I think my gearing will be spot on. I agree about navigating this sight. I have almost zero luck finding relevant info.
Rafe

[r1lark]

Here is the thread that Scott (yeroldad) posted about his T-5 swap: https://forum.studebakerdriversclub....mander-t5-swap

[Rafe Hollister]

Thanks, I now have that copy and pasted into my notes. But still, no simple answers.
Rafe

[yeroldad]

So, how do we find this information? I really don't like the complicated way SDC has this website.

[bensherb]

I have 215 tires on it. 5 gear isn't for below about 65-75 mph, the motor is at too low a rpm and it doesn't like it. I'm putting on 205 tires and might still have to put steeper gears in it the rear end also. I love the way it shifts, quick and smooth. 1st gear is plenty low and it gets moving real quick. I did post about the swap. Maybe you can find it. I have a hell of a time getting around the SDC sight.

Scott; just so you know, a 205-75-15 tire is about 1/4" taller and only about 3/8" narrower than a 215-70-15 one. The 215-70 will actually have a tiny bit lower final drive ratio than the 205-75. So unless your current 215's have an aspect ratio of 75 or more there will be almost no perceivable affect on final drive ratio.

Also, won't steeper gears just make 5th gear totally unusable for anywhere but Bonneville?

[yeroldad]

I haven't bought the tires yet. I might look at 195's. By steeper, I meant a higher numerical ratio, like 3:54 or more. A narrower tire in the front would let it steer a little easier.

[PackardV8]

might still have to put steeper gears in it the rear end also.

Also, won't steeper gears just make 5th gear totally unusable for anywhere but Bonneville?

Steeper, deeper, taller, lower, mean different things to different folks. Higher numerically, lower numerically or just put down the ratios under consideration and confusion is lessened.

jack vines

[bensherb]

OK. So a lower gear ratio. That makes more sense to me. I have a 3.54 ratio Dana 44 in my '62 GT with a '63 R1 289 V8 bored .060 over to a 299? . It worked quite well with a stock 3 speed overdrive and with the current GM 4L60 AOD. It runs 2000-2100 RPM at freeway speed. But really sings at 4400 RPM.

[yeroldad]

Ben, what is your 'freeway speed'? And what size tires on the rear do you have on it?

[bensherb]

Sorry Scott, I forgot to mention tire size. Diameter is 27.18" ,size is 235-55-17 on all four corners. Freeway speed is 65-70 mph.

[6hk71400]

Thom,

Whatever you make as far as a transmission choice, make sure you use a transmission jack. If you don't have one, buy or borrow one. You don't need to wrestle and strain yourself and end up calling 911 to have them pull you out under the car. Better yet, if you have a friend that owns a four post car hoist, that would allow you to stand. If they are a true friend, they will help with the project.

Bob Miles
Old enough to know better, but sometimes don't do better

[Rafe Hollister]

I have a friend with a hoist... or I might just drive the whole thing to Bensherb's place and offer him the privilege of helping me.
Rafe

[bensherb]

I thought that might come up.

[DieselJim]

We put a World Class T5 in sons 63 Daytona with a built R2. Running a 3:54 rear gear.

[Rafe Hollister]

How? What adapters? Details please?
Rafe

[23 cratae]

interesting topic,
ive considered this option also , currently running a toyota celica 5sp. W50 steel case behind my 259. good for 200 hp, , the existing box is toast - due to the lay shaft having a roller bearing and a ball race at the other <-- the weakest part .. also if these boxes are overfilled with oil they last .

problem is the oil is too thin and rolls away from the top of the bearings leaving not enough residual lubricant for bigger horsepower,= use a good quality sticky gear oil additive

ive put all new bearings through 2nd trans , replacing the layshaft ball with a roller , other than machineing a collar for 5th this makes them pretty solid trans. final drive is the same as 3speed, overdrive box. (have been called a Japanese borg warner)

celica box is bolted to the stude bellhousing .

toyota gear shift has optional selector lengths to suit application . ive gone for the top left in this pic, then custom fitted a mount to suit
1964-1967 Chevelle Hurst Shifter Handle this snugly works around the fordors bench seat seat nicely

whille a Japanese box may not suit everyone, id say ive hammered this trans over 3 years of owing this car dumping the clutch even trashing a set of spider gears

and its finally given up .. still has a useable 4 gear .. im not sure where all the others are !!

[Rafe Hollister]

Did you use the Stude bell housing and clutch? How did you adapt Celica 5sp to bell housing?
Rafe

[enjenjo]

The IROC Camaro T5 is mounted at 15 degrees rotated to the left so the rear mount is also rotated. The mainshaft on this trans is the same length as the Mustang mainshaft but has 27 splines instead of 28. The OD of the drive yoke is the same 1.5" so you can use the Mustang tailhousing to mount it straight up and the shifter position is the same. A S10 tailhousing will also fit the Camaro mainshaft, takes the same drive yoke, but moves the shifter forward several inches. S10 and Camaro shifters will interchange, but the Mustang shifter is different. The S10 takes a shorter shift rod. The speedometer drive gear location is different on all three mainshafts but you can buy a relocation kit on Ebay to fix that.

The Camaro T5 has a 2.95 first gear and a short input shaft. You can install a 2.95 input shaft from a SN95 Mustang T5 along with the world class synchronizer ring that fits it to get a longer input for the Studebaker bell housing.. It will still be too short but will work with an adapter pilot bearing. The Mustang input is 10 spline and should work with the Studebaker clutch. I am unclear on the Clutch release bearing pilot but either GM or Ford will fit the case.

An alternative would be using a 55 to 57 Chevrolet bell housing with the adapter used for a 700R4 and a Chevrolet Flywheel with a GM clutch to adapt to the Studebaker rear engine mounts. Then the Camaro transmission will bolt right up.

Toyota Celica 5sp. W50 transmission is a popular swap into many cars in Australia and New Zeeland.

That's all I have right now but there is more in my head with the right questions.

[bensherb]

OK, the 15 degrees might take a trick to deal with but the rear engine mounts is not a problem. Add them to the adapter plate. I made my adapter with them included.

Question, if the trans sits rotated 15 degrees in the Camero, why can't it sit that way in a Stude?

[enjenjo]

Unless it interferes with the clutch linkage it can. The reason for the rotation was to get the shifter closer to the driver.

[bensherb]

OK thanks. A hydraulic clutch will take care of that nicely.

[DieselJim]

We used the 63 bellhousing with a adaptor kit from Fairborn Studebaker. Used the Ford clutch disc. The kit had a adaptor plate that bolted to the bellhousing. A new pilot bearing and a new throughout bearing. Used the S10 tail shaft housing and a Hurst shifter with adjustable stops. As said we are running 3:54 gear. I drove a 61 Hawk that the owner built with 4:10. The first 3 gears were almost useless. The 3:54 seems to be a good all-around gear. Car is a blast to drive. Just need to watch the tac on launch as it will get to 6000 rather quick.

[yeroldad]

The stock Studebaker clutch disc is NOT the same as the Ford T5. It is 1/16" smaller. Maybe the chuv disc is 15/16? The Studebaker disc will go on the input shaft, but it is sloppy, and I'd bet money that if you use the Stude disc you will strip out the disc hub, or worse, it will strip the input shaft. Mine is a '56 289, and the Ford T5 takes a 10" or 10.5" disc. Mine was a 9" disc. I would of had to drill and tap new pressure plate mounting holes to used a 10", or 10.5" disc. I used a Jeep 9 1/4" disc and it fit fine in the pressure plate and works great. Not worried about slipping with the super low first gear.

[DieselJim]

Thanks for setting the clutch disc strait We must have used the Ford disc as it has been in for over s years...

[enjenjo]

You are correct. Studebaker and older GM are 1 1/8" 10 spline, and a Ford T5 is 1 1/16" 10 spline. The Camaro V8 T5 are abut 1 1/8" by 26 spline

[wh22366]

I had a brandy new 10 1/2", 10 spline clutch disc that I originally ordered from SI for my T10 and was going to use it on my T5 Mustang trans conversion until I read your post. I ordered a disc for a 1 1/16" input shaft and what a difference in spline clearance! Thanks for the tip.

[Alan]

You can use a B O P C scatershield bell housing without having to use an adapter, just re drill it.