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  • #1

    1950 brake pedal resistance

    I just completed installing a new brake system on my 1950 Champion. I replaced the OE M/C with one for a 1976 Corvette. I have adjusted the brake shoes out to the drums as directed (adjust one shoe till drum won't turn, then back off till it will, barely by hand and then do the same for the other shoe). I have done this for all 4 wheels so that at this point I can turn the drums (barely) by hand.

    I installed the 10# resisters (can't remember what they are called) in both lines as required with the turner system.

    I have bled each wheel so that bubbles are no longer showing up in the bleeding jar and I have a really firm pedal. However, I expected to feel resistance soon after passing the original 1/4" "play" in the pedal. Hope this makes sense. My question is, how many inches should be between the front of the foot pad on the pedal and the floorboard?

    Sincerely,
    Jimmie
    Orleans, Indiana


    1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
    I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!
    sigpicJimmie
    Orange County, Indiana
    1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Are you saying the pedal seems to you to be going too close to the floor?
    There is no standard distance to the floor on a stock system, and certainly none on a custom installation like this, it varies with pedal adjustment, lining thickness and amount of brake shoe adjustment.
    Usually, the pedal stops about half way down, with max foot pressure.

    So you still have the stock little 9 in. Stude. Champion Lockheed style eccentric adjuster brakes all the way around then? Are the automatic adjuster parts installed on the shoes with the plugs in the linings?

    If your shoes "drag" like you say they do, they will overheat and crystallize the linings, also the automatic adjusters will overtighten.


    StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner
    SDC Member Since 1967

    Comment

    • #3
      What Rich said PLUS it is going to depend on the bore of the MC that you used relative to the stock one.

      A dual circuit MC is a good idea. Now if one circuit springs a leak, you still have 2 wheel brakes.

      A bigger problem is that the stock brakes on a '50 Champion are much like 2 wheel brakes to start with [:0] [^]. They are not very good. I believe 54 and up self energizing V8 brakes are a bolt in. If so, I would sure make that conversion as soon as possible.

      IMHO you can get into far bigger trouble with the stock '50 brakes than you can with a single circuit MC.

      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

      [IMG][/IMG]

      Dick Steinkamp
      Bellingham, WA

      Comment

      • #4
        Right on Dick! My sentiments exactly! Maybe I did not want to disappoint you too much by saying that, but actually you are better off forewarned, than SORRY!
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner
        SDC Member Since 1967

        Comment

        • #5
          The pedal is going about half way to the floor and I expected it to stop nearer the top than that. Yes, I still have the OE other than the Turner M/C kit. The automatic adjusting parts are all in place and appear to be in working order. I will loosen up the shoes a little more to avoid the problems you mentioned.

          Thank you,
          Jimmie
          Orleans, Indiana

          quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

          Are you saying the pedal seems to you to be going too close to the floor?
          There is no standard distance to the floor on a stock system, and certainly none on a custom installation like this, it varies with pedal adjustment, lining thickness and amount of brake shoe adjustment.
          Usually, the pedal stops about half way down, with max foot pressure.

          So you still have the stock little 9 in. Stude. Champion Lockheed style eccentric adjuster brakes all the way around then? Are the automatic adjuster parts installed on the shoes with the plugs in the linings?

          If your shoes "drag" like you say they do, they will overheat and crystallize the linings, also the automatic adjusters will overtighten.


          StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

          1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
          I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!
          sigpicJimmie
          Orange County, Indiana
          1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA

          Comment

          • #6
            I invested the time and money in converting to the dual M/C for that reason.
            Do you know what makes the 54 V-8 brakes better?

            Also, could you elaborate on your comment:
            "IMHO you can get into far bigger trouble with the stock '50 brakes than you can with a single circuit MC."
            Are you saying that by putting the dual M/C on the car without changing to the V-8 brakes that it is less safe than it was before I made the M/C change and that I should take it off until I can get the V-8 set-up?

            Thanks for all you help and please get back with me.

            Jimmie
            Orleans, Indiana

            quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

            What Rich said PLUS it is going to depend on the bore of the MC that you used relative to the stock one.

            A dual circuit MC is a good idea. Now if one circuit springs a leak, you still have 2 wheel brakes.

            A bigger problem is that the stock brakes on a '50 Champion are much like 2 wheel brakes to start with [:0] [^]. They are not very good. I believe 54 and up self energizing V8 brakes are a bolt in. If so, I would sure make that conversion as soon as possible.

            IMHO you can get into far bigger trouble with the stock '50 brakes than you can with a single circuit MC.

            Dick Steinkamp
            Bellingham, WA

            [IMG][/IMG]


            1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
            I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!
            sigpicJimmie
            Orange County, Indiana
            1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA

            Comment

            • #7
              Being new to the forum I hate to question those with more experience. But I have always heard that the '54 and up brakes would only retrofit the '51 thur '53 models. The '50 Champion was the last of the 4 lug wheel Champions. If the '54 and up brakes will work on the '50 Champion, then this would be a break thur for those wanting to upgrade to a more modern 5 lug wheel. Of coarse this will create another problem for Jimmie.

              Comment

              • #8
                Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum. I am waiting to see what others have to say about all these brake ideas.

                Sincerely,

                Jimmie
                Orleans, Indiana

                quote:Originally posted by Aero Blue

                Being new to the forum I hate to question those with more experience. But I have always heard that the '54 and up brakes would only retrofit the '51 thur '53 models. The '50 Champion was the last of the 4 lug wheel Champions. If the '54 and up brakes will work on the '50 Champion, then this would be a break thur for those wanting to upgrade to a more modern 5 lug wheel. Of coarse this will create another problem for Jimmie.

                1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA
                I'VE SAVED SO MUCH DAYLIGHT THAT THERE'S NO DARK TO SLEEP IN ANYMORE!
                sigpicJimmie
                Orange County, Indiana
                1950 CHAMPION -ORANGE COUNTY, INDIANA

                Comment

                • #9
                  I agree with Aero that for sure the 54 and up brakes will fit the 51-53 spindles. I have heard they fit the '50, but I don't know for sure. Hopefully someone here does.

                  The pre '54 Studebaker brakes were not very good by today's standards. Just so I'm not accused of "bashing" Studebakers , brakes on all American cars at this time were also not that great.

                  In '54 Studebaker went to the Lockheed Wagner self energizing drum brakes and they remained until the end of production in '66. These brakes are light years ahead of the ones they replaced and work well in today's driving conditions. The earlier ones just can't stop the car in the distances expected today. '54 and up can.

                  The dual master cylinder is a great idea if it is engineered correctly for the rest of the brake system. I have no idea if yours is or isn't. If it is, then your brakes will feel the same as before the change and your car is safer from a partial brake fluid loss.

                  Even with the dual M/C, however, you have no more braking power than with the original MC. This means you still have a longer stopping distance than you would have with the '54 and up brakes. That would concern me.


                  Dick Steinkamp
                  Bellingham, WA

                  [IMG][/IMG]

                  Dick Steinkamp
                  Bellingham, WA

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Dick I don't won't to be a torn in your side, but weren't the pre 1954 brakes the Lockheed Wagner self adjusting design? 1954 and up on the passenger cars were the Bendix self engergizing design with the exception being the rear brakes on the Studebaker Avanti which went back to the Lockheed Wagner design to minimize rear braking. I could be wrong, but that is the way I remember it. Side note on the 1950 installation of later brakes. The rear axle shaft part number was the same for 6G to 9G. Changed in '51 (10G). I don't know why, but possibly a redesign of the axle end to the new rear hub which was the same for both the Champions and Commander thru 1953(Page 276 of the '51 to '54 Chasssis Manual). Like you said, maybe somebody has actually done it and could provide better information.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      quote:Originally posted by Aero Blue

                      Dick I don't won't to be a torn in your side, but weren't the pre 1954 brakes the Lockheed Wagner self adjusting design? 1954 and up on the passenger cars were the Bendix self engergizing design with the exception being the rear brakes on the Studebaker Avanti which went back to the Lockheed Wagner design to minimize rear braking.
                      Right on. Thanks for the correction. Another senior moment for me [^]

                      Dick Steinkamp
                      Bellingham, WA

                      [IMG][/IMG]

                      Dick Steinkamp
                      Bellingham, WA

                      Comment

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