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Converting an Avanti R2 to an R1 engine--i,e., removing the supercharger.

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  • #1

    Fuel System: Converting an Avanti R2 to an R1 engine--i,e., removing the supercharger.

    I've read far too many Avanti ads---with an R2 engine--- where the owner mentions "...a possible..." carburetor 'problem', or a "...hard-starting..." problem.
    Now, I'm not a 'power' nut, and would be perfectly happy with the R2 engine with the supercharger removed and the normally-aspirated 4-bbl providing the fuel needs . I would even more than welcome the reduced compression ratio I'd get (of 9.0:1) of the 'stock' R2, and consider that to be a definite plus from the major standpoint of increased engine longevity, and the minor one of decreased fuel cost. Again: reduced power is not even a consideration.

    Major, MAJOR question: would this be an easy conversion? I'd like an easy fix, and not a career (I've been working on cars for many years--starting with a total rebuild of a '53 Commander years ago--and know the difference).

    Many thanks, in advance, for all your answers, and suggestions, from a definite 'newbie'...as of just today. I'm definitely looking forward to this relationship
    Tags: None
  • #2
    The only major difference is the ignition advance curve in the distributor. It's not absolutely necessary to have your R2 distributor changed to the R1 specs, but it will run a bit better and get a bit more MPG. Same with the carburetor tuning. The R1 carb has different jetting; changing your R2 carb to R1 specs will improve things, but so will a new Edelbrock,

    BTW, the purist would say keep the R2 carburetor, intake manifold, supercharger, pulleys and bracketry with the car for posterity. The CASOs would say it will sell tomorrow for big bucks; take the money and run.

    jack vines
    PackardV8

    Comment

    • jcharlestc
      #2.1
      jcharlestc commented
      08-25-2022, 02:43 PM
      Editing a comment
      Many thanks!
      Last 4-bbl I rebuilt was on a 95 Suburban; I understand that in today's climate a new Edelbrock carb (ANY new 4-bbl) would cost more than that Suburban. Where can I get info on new jets needed for the R1 carb?

      And--from a newbie, remember--what, exactly, is a CASO?
  • #3
    Remember to Plug the "Reference Line" pressure Hole in the Top of the R2 Carter Fuel Pump, and open up the plugged VENT !

    With Carb. changes and Distributor mods or replacement, it will Run as good as a R1 with fair MPG and great Performance, just a hair slower, which is OK with you.

    And, you still have the "Intimidation Factor" with the "Supercharged" Emblems!

    Is this a Four Speed Manual with a 3.73 Ratio Rear?
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner
    SDC Member Since 1967

    Comment

    • #4
      "...Is this a Four Speed Manual with a 3.73 Ratio Rear? "

      1. Have seen the disclaimers on both manual and automatics. Is this fairly critical?
      2. And thanks for responding with the fuel pump information; just the type of specifics I need, and was/am hoping for.

      [Been a long time since my '53 Commander with its safety-wired-nuts on the connecting-rods (had to borrow a safety-wiring tool from an aircraft mechanic)...]

      jcharlestc

      Comment

      • StudeRich
        #4.1
        StudeRich commented
        08-25-2022, 01:44 PM
        Editing a comment
        YES, it IS critical, 2000-2200 RPM at 70 MPH Cruise, vs guessing: 3000-4000 3.31 to 3.73 or 4.09 !
        The numbers are really not that critical, but the Point is, Livable Noise, Engine Wear, Oil and Fuel Mileage etc. vs NOT!
    • #5
      Since power is of no concern, after de-tuning the motor, another step would be to get rid of the 3.73 rear end and install a 3.07, or 3.31 at most.

      Short version of a long story, I once installed R1 pistons in a 63 Cruiser's stock 289. The Cruiser ran very well, good pep and good MPG, but ran a bit on the warm side after I installed AC.

      Comment

      • jcharlestc
        #5.1
        jcharlestc commented
        08-26-2022, 08:52 AM
        Editing a comment
        Thanks very much for the advice.
        The 3.07 is right up my "rational modifications" alley.(for me, at any rate)
        Did South Bend make a 'drop-in' part. perhaps even from another vehicle?
        Any suggestions re obtaining a 3.07 rear end would be deeply appreciated. Thanks, again.
    • #6
      Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
      The only major difference is the ignition advance curve in the distributor. It's not absolutely necessary to have your R2 distributor changed to the R1 specs, but it will run a bit better and get a bit more MPG. Same with the carburetor tuning. The R1 carb has different jetting; changing your R2 carb to R1 specs will improve things, but so will a new Edelbrock,

      BTW, the purist would say keep the R2 carburetor, intake manifold, supercharger, pulleys and bracketry with the car for posterity. The CASOs would say it will sell tomorrow for big bucks; take the money and run.

      jack vines
      Sold off my 3589S carb on my R1 Avanti, replaced with a new 1403 Edelbrock, the idle is not perfect (tends to creep up a bit) but more than sufficient, especially with the factory air conditioning. Only had to trim off the linkage to clear the manifold runner.

      Comment

      • jcharlestc
        #6.1
        jcharlestc commented
        08-25-2022, 03:06 PM
        Editing a comment
        Great suggestion for financing the new Edelbrock. Would like to start with re-jetting the existing R2 first, if I can get some info on the new jets needed. Any help deeply appreciated.
        Many thanks.
    • #7
      Why don't you see if someone will trade you a R1 for your R2 in the same condition?

      Comment

      • jcharlestc
        #7.1
        jcharlestc commented
        08-26-2022, 08:56 AM
        Editing a comment
        Good suggestion; thanks.
        If I can get the correct jets, I'd feel more comfortable going that route, however; would be a great excuse for a carb re-build.
    • #8
      A CASO is a cheap ass Studebaker owner, Some deny being one, some actually aren't one, and some heartily embrace being a CASO.

      --Dwight (Econ-O-Miler, not CASO)
      • Likes 1

      Comment

      • jcharlestc
        #8.1
        jcharlestc commented
        08-25-2022, 07:43 PM
        Editing a comment
        I'm in the right place.
    • #9
      There are a couple "stickies" at the top of the Tech Talk section that should answer your questions concerning leaner jets and metering rods for your R2 carb. They're not too hard to change.
      --Dwight

      Comment

      • jcharlestc
        #9.1
        jcharlestc commented
        08-27-2022, 12:42 PM
        Editing a comment
        Many thanks !!!
        Being a 'newb' means having to be led around by the nose on occasion. I totally (dis)missed the "stickies".
        Many thanks.
        jcharles...
    • #10
      Being a newbie as you said you were, I highly suggest Bob’s Studebaker Resource & Information page. Tons of info!!
      Bobs Resource & Information Page 2025
      https://studebaker-info.org/

      Comment

      • jcharlestc
        #10.1
        jcharlestc commented
        08-27-2022, 04:36 AM
        Editing a comment
        More "Help you feel your way around" info. Fantastic!...and many thanks!
        {I remembered, yesterday, that the hardest job I EVER had on my '53 Commander rebuild was removing the rear drums from the tapered axles; and was wondering if this piece of insanity was continued (by South Bend) until the end---and if there's a "standard" work-around. Hopefully, Bob will be able to help with this one.
        Again: many thanks!}
    • #11
      Concerning the rear drums: Studebaker used tapered rear axles until mid 1965. Late 1965 and all 1966 Lark-types used the superior flanged Dana 44 (&, I assume, Dana 27 on sixes). One of these differentials would be a very good upgrade to your Avanti.

      Alternately, Phil Harris (Fairborn Studebaker, in OH) has had flanged axles manufactured for retrofit to tapered Dana 44 diff's. If you have ever had a tapered axle break you will spend the money for them.

      Some have removed the hubs from the rear drums so as to work on the rear brakes without pulling the hub/drum assembly. This issue has its controversy and there are threads on the forum about that.

      --Dwight

      Comment

      • #12
        FWIW, Mopar and Jeep vehicles used tapered axles as well.
        78 Avanti RQB 2792
        64 Avanti R1 R5408
        63 Avanti R1 R4551
        63 Avanti R1 R2281
        62 GT Hawk V15949
        56 GH 6032504
        56 GH 6032588
        55 Speedster 7160047
        55 Speedster 7165279

        Comment

        • jcharlestc
          #12.1
          jcharlestc commented
          08-27-2022, 05:14 PM
          Editing a comment
          Will keep this in mind; many thanks.
          jcharles...
      • #13
        Originally posted by 64studeavanti View Post
        FWIW, Mopar and Jeep vehicles used tapered axles as well.
        As did Jaguar and Sunbeam Tiger.

        jack vines

        PackardV8

        Comment

        • jcharlestc
          #13.1
          jcharlestc commented
          08-27-2022, 09:50 AM
          Editing a comment
          Jaguar, perhaps, but at least on my two (;87; '05), no drums have to be pulled to service brakes; discs all around.
          Your comment definitely changes my desire for a Mk II (which I believe has rear drums), however.
          Thanks for responding.
          jcharles...
      • #14
        Avanti Motors used mostly flanged axles on Avanti II production...but assemblers pulled whatever axles that were next in the parts inventory...whether they were old stock or current. The '70 I owned had flanged axles but some later cars received tapered axles. There wasn't always any consistency to it.
        Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.
        • Likes 1

        Comment

        • jcharlestc
          #14.1
          jcharlestc commented
          08-27-2022, 05:27 PM
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for responding.
          It's interesting that this was the M.O. of Avanti Motors, and certainly something to keep in mind.
          Again: many thanks...and being a malcontent keeps you young (at least it works for me).
          jcharles...
      • #15
          • Jaguar, perhaps, but at least on my two (;87; '05), no drums have to be pulled to service brakes; discs all around.
            Your comment definitely changes my desire for a Mk II (which I believe has rear drums), however.
            Thanks for responding.
            jcharles.
        Pre-BMC, pre-Ford, pre-Tata, when Jaguars had solid rear axles, they used the Dana 44 with tapered axles. I bought several from the wrecking yard to convert Sunbeam Tigers to lower gear ratios and Twin Traction.

        Interestingly, even when making 250 - 300 horsepower and being run hard in autocrosses, I don't remember a Tiger breaking a tapered axle.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

        Comment

        • jcharlestc
          #15.1
          jcharlestc commented
          08-27-2022, 12:29 PM
          Editing a comment
          Very good info and highly usable---if I can only remember, or remember where I stored it; thanks.
          This is the stuff that this intellectual-pursuit-disguised-as-a-hobby is made of.
          jcharles...
          [ "I don't remember a Tiger breaking a tapered axle." My '53 never had that problem either. Perhaps you have arrived at one reason for their use...]
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