Transmission / Overdrive: Hurst reverse shifter rod doesn't fit

[cliffh]

I am installing a Hurst Competition Plus shifter on a 63 GT Hawk with BW T10 Trans. I have shifter 391-7308 and install kit 373-4734. The reverse rod is 3404. The 1-2 and 3-4 rods line up perfectly but the reverse rod lacks about 1/2" enough offset between the parallel legs of the rod (see pics). I found a used one on eBay and asked the seller to measure the offset on his but haven't heard back yet. Has anyone dealt with this before? Just want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong before I start bending or maybe cut and weld on it.
Cliff

[Mike]

The #'s you quote are correct, and your picture shows the rod and arm positioned correctly as in figure 1 of the instructions. The reverse arm should be 2142.
In the instructions, the main illustration is a forward mount shifter, on a transmission with eight mounting bosses on the tail shaft housing. The reverse adjuster is at the shifter, and both ends of the rod hook through the arms from the transmission side. This is in contrast to figure 1, which applies only to transmissions with five mounting bosses.
From your pictures, it looks like the reverse rod will line up if you simply install it with the adjuster on the transmission side of the arm. However, it may interfere with the other rods.
I suggest you try that & see. Also try ignoring figure 1, and installing the reverse rod as in the main illustration. Make doubly sure all the rods, adjusters, and arms are positioned as in the illustration. I hope you avoid bending, cutting or welding.
Mike

[cliffh]

Mike, thanks for the reply. My reverse arm is 2142. I'll try your suggestion of simply flipping the adjuster to the other side of the arm. I need about 1/2" and flipping the adjuster should give me about 11/16" which might be close enough to bend it a bit to fit. I'll check to see if it interferes. Ignoring figure 1 gives the same offset so same problem. See pic. I will triple-check all the rods, etc. Fortunately, the body is not on the chassis yet so that make it easier to compare to the illustration.

[RadioRoy]

Should that white stepped washer be flipped over so the wide lip rides on the pin?

[Mike]

The lip goes against the rod or adjustment button.
Mike

[cliffh]

Mike, Thanks for the suggestion of putting the adjuster on the inside of the reverse arm. It looks like that will work. The 1-2 arm almost touches the adjuster button but looks like it will be OK. As I thought, instead of having 1/2" too little offset on the rod, I now have about 3/16" too much. It will be easy to flatten out the 2 bends that make the offset. If anyone is interested, the offset is currently 2 5/8" and the 2 bends are 66 degrees. By making the bends 58 degrees, the offset should be about 2 7/16" and the overall length of the rod should be about 3/8" longer. There looks to be plenty of threads for the adjuster to move over that much.
Cliff

[Mike]

In the '70's I installed a Hurst in my '61 Hawk. It fit great! I don't remember if it had the eight hole tail shaft housing. I take it the late 4 speeds have five hole tail shaft housings.
It's not easy to bend those rods. Someone tried that on a used shifter I bought for my Avanti. They cracked the 3/4 rod. What's sad is they had installed the rods wrong, with the adjusters at the transmission end. I think it probably would have fit if they had installed it right. So far, I've cleaned and rebuilt the shifter, and bought a new installation kit. I haven't installed it ,yet. The Avanti mounts in the rear holes, so the installation kit is different from yours, 3157 vs 4734.
Would a flat reverse arm solve your problem? I'll check the off set on mine, tomorrow. It's 1670, vs your 2142. Don't bend anything, yet.
Mike

[Mike]

I checked the pictures for 105 1670, and 105 2142, at Browse by Category - Shifter Doc . 1670 looks flat. The off set on 2142 is clear. I wonder if the installation kit for Hawks was designed for earlier, eight hole tail shaft housings, and the reverse off set is wrong for a five hole.
Mike

[Mike]

I have arm 1670 here on my desk, from the spare parts I saved. It's flat, and the holes are oriented the same as 2142. Will that position the rod closer to where it needs to be than repositioning the adjuster?
Mike

[blackhawk]

Cliff, have you tried flipping the reverse arm over? If the arm will clear the transmission case in that position, it might give you a slightly different offset for the rod installation shown in your first photo. ~ Dale

On second thought, it looks like reversing the arm would move the offset inward too much. I have a Hurst Competition Plus shifter waiting to be installed in my 63 GT Hawk. I should check the parts to see how they compare to those in your photos. ~ Dale

[cliffh]

Mike, I'll get out to the shop tomorrow and check how much offset is in the 2142 arm. The 1670 flat arm just might do it. If so, I'll order one rather than bend the rod. If I do have to bend the rod, I have decided that it would be safer to make 2 new small bends rather than change the existing bends.

[Mike]

Sounds great! Please let me know what the off set of the 2142 arm is. If the flat arm works, without bending the rod, it will solve the mystery of why people, who were probably following the instructions, said the shifters didn't fit.
I'm glad they make the part available but dismayed that "Shifter Doc" wants $12 to ship the order, in addition to $29 for the new arm. I should be able to mail it like a first class letter, without a trip to the post office, since it's less than 1/4" thick, and probably weighs less than 7 oz. (If you have a postage scale, what does an arm weigh?)
Mike

[Mike]

Dale,
I hope you bear with us. We may have the solution to a problem you were going to have! If you have 3404 reverse rod, is it like Cliff's?
Although it helps, it's not really necessary to take the body off the frame to install the shifter.
Mike

[blackhawk]

Mike,

I have kit # 373 4743, which I purchased from Dave Thibeault in 2003 for my n'63 Hawk.. The reverse rod does look like Cliff's. There isn't any reverse arm in the kit. The reverse arm on the OEM shifter that is in my Hawk is flat, no offset. I have a Hurst shifter installed on the T-10 in my '64 Cruiser, but I did not install it (my Dad did a long time ago). That car is in an outbuilding where the temperature is -30 right now. The rear is up on stands since I removed the differential some time ago. I might be able to squeeze under there enough to see what the installation looks like.

Dale

Okay, I checked the installation on my Cruiser. The reverse arm is flat, not offset. It looks like whatever Dad had in the kit he had did not line up properly. He cut and welded the reverse rod to make it fit. The reverse rod has about an inch offset. It does not resemble the reverse rods in either my kit or Cliff's. So, that installation is not going to shed any light on this issue, except to show that in its case, the reverse arm is flat.

Dale

[cliffh]

Mike, The 2142 arm has exactly 1/2" offset so a the 1670 flat arm should make the reverse rod fit perfectly. I think the end of the button on the adjuster or the spring clip will rub on the 1-2 rod but it has enough length that I can easily put a couple of slight large radius bends in it so everything clears. The original OEM arm is flat and it appears there is enough meat in it to drill a 1/2" hole for the adjuster if I clock it CCW a bit compared to the 2142. I didn't think to look at the OEM arm until Dale mentioned his was flat. Thanks.
BTW: the 2142 arm weighs 1.7 oz.
Cliff