Installing Freeze Plugs

[jngregory]

I have some dumb questions about installing freeze plugs. I am installing new freeze plugs in a full flow 289 that my son and I are rebuilding. The holes have the lip on the inside, although in some of the holes part of the lip has corroded.

I have new brass freeze plugs, which are saucer shaped. The part number is stamped on the "inside" of the saucer. My questions are:
- which way is the plug installed - rounded side facing toward the block, or rounded side facing away from the block?
- what is the proper way to install them? ie. if rounded side is facing away from the block, do I tap the crown with a hammer?

I didn't see anything in the shop manual, and my search on the forum didn't talk about these basics, probably because everyone already knows this!

Thanks.

John
1953 Commander Coupe
1954 Champion Sedan
1963 Lark

[fmarshall]

They go in with the the bottom of the cup toward the block. Put some silicone around the outer wall of the plug and tap them in flush.

If you have the block out and accessible, you are a lucky guy. The best thing to use is a freeze plug installation tool, which will shoulder against the lip and fill the void while driving in the plug.

Ex: http://shopping.msn.com/prices/shp/?itemId=533545843

A socket can be used as long as it is the base of the socket and it covers the lip of the plug. It can't be one that fits inside the plug or it can distort the plug and it will leak.

If you have the correct plugs, they will be flush/nearly flush with the block when installed.

I'm talking cup plugs here. If you have the disc plugs, they are different and may not be the correct plugs for the car, though they can also be used.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeze_plug for a disc plug.

If you have damaged/missing lips, I would use the cup style though. The disc style go in with the rounded part out. And when the press in the lip holds them in place while tapping expands them.

Cool Example photos:

http://www.automedia.com/Replacing_a_Freeze_Plug/ccr20070401fp/1

========================
63 Avanti R2, 4-Speed, 3.73 TT
Martinez, CA

[JDP]

If you have the disk shape block, cup out, tap the center with a hammer.If it's the cup style, follow the advice above, but I've never used sealer of any kind.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

[StudeRich]

John; something is not right here! It sounds like you are saying that you are using Disc. type (domed center) '51-early '62 core plugs! [?]

Then you say you have a late '62-'64 full-flow block, which uses the flat (center) "CUP" type core plugs! [:0]

But what really confuses me is, you say there is a ridge or "lip" in the block!! A full flow block should have clean round straight through "HOLES" that "look like" they just "drilled" them! [:0] [:0]

If there is casting flash around the holes that the foundry failed to "clean up" I have seen some, they can be cleaned up, or just don't use more than 3/16" to 1/4" deep cups so they will be close to flush with the outside of the block for maximum sealing and no leakage, because you will not be able to drive a DEEP cup core plug all the way into a "flashed" hole with a lip!

I would use Permatex #2 gasket cement rather than silicone, only because I have had better results, others experience may vary!
The truth is, it does not really matter what you use or even none, as most all methods have worked it is owner preference just like head gasket sealing or not!

If this engine does in fact, have a lower right rear of block oil filter adapter mounting surface, I definitely DO NOT recommend any "Disc. type" core plugs! [}] [V] [xx(]

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

[rockne10]

I agree with John. I've never used sealer and, if I did, the last thing I would use is silicone.

[gordr]

Agree with Rich. I also used Permatex. And if it's a full-flow block, you should be using the SHALLOW-style cup type plugs, not the discs, nor the DEEP cups.

"Cups" have straight sides, either tall or short (deep vs shallow). The face will not be flat, but will be SLIGHTLY convex on the side going into the engine block. "Discs" have NO sides, but are made in a pronounced dome shape, and get installed with the dome facing out. They HAVE to have a lip in the block to seat against. Absolutely HAVE to! The "cups" can tolerate a lip in the block, as long as it's deep enough in there to allow the plug to seat flush with the outer surface of the block.

"Cups" seal by means of an interference fit between the (slightly) oversize O.D. of the cup with the "standard" size hole in the block. Works exactly like sealing a bottle with a cork.

"Discs" seal by having the O.D. being expanded beyond "standard" due to being flattened by hammering on the center, against the lip in the block, which serves mainly as an anvil against which they can be hammered. They need not be fully flattened, only a little.

"Discs", when new, are slightly undersize to the hole, and will go in (and fall out) freely. "Cups" when new, are oversize to the hole, and won't go in unless hammered, and they have to be hammered straight in, you don't want to rock them.

The advantage to the cup style is that the seal area is much broader than that afforded by the discs, and the machining of the block is a little simpler.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[jngregory]

Thanks for the advice. The reason I have the brass disc style freeze plugs is I ordered them some time ago for a '58 engine rebuild, didn't need to use them, and I didn't know there was a different type for the later full flow blocks.

Clearly I need to use the cup style plugs, so I'll get some and install them rather than the disc style plugs.

Rich, even though this is a full flow block, there is, or at least appears to be, a definite "lip" in each hole that covers part of the hole, say from 4 o'clock to 8 o'clock. It doesn't look like a flashing left over from the casting, but I guess it could be. This partial lip is what confused me when I read the old threads on freeze plugs. There sure is alot to learn!

Thanks again.

John
1953 Commander Coupe
1954 Champion Sedan
1963 Lark

[Chucks Stude]

Could the partial lip from 4 to 8 oclock, be the dreaded crud in the cooling system? You may need to do the dreaded block cleanout. Get out the coat-hangers, thin screwdrivers, and a sprayer on the end of your hose, and clean out the water jackets. Be sure and pull the drain plugs from the back of the block (low and on either side of the block). Just my humble opinion[^].

[whacker]

I suggest you get the Dorman style plugs that have a bolt in the center to expand them. They are easy for an amateur to work with and do ust as good a job as the one-piece all metal ones. Look at this page:

http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Cooling/Dc9/dc9.html

[dynolou2]

If you are looking for brass plugs, get a complete set for 302 ford, it was cheaper for me to buy the set than to buy individuals. Those are the cup style. You will even get a few extra. Lou Cote [8D]

[WCP]

All of the late model v8 blocks that I have encountered have the partial lip on the lower section of the core plug opening. It is not a "flashing". That is why when removing the plugs, it is necessary to tap the upper portion of the plug inward, rotating the plug 90 degrees before pulling it out with pliers. I always tap the new plugs in with a socket sitting inside the lip, but allow 1/8" clearance between the socket and the inside of the lip or you will have difficulty removing the socket. There is less risk of damaging the sealing lip of the plug this way. I always use Permatex #2 on the plug lips. As previously suggested, check the back of the block for crud and get as much out as possible. You will be amazed at the amount of crud that solidifies between the cylinder pots and side and rear outsides of the block. Be prepared to spend a few hours digging.

[jngregory]

The block has been hot tanked by the machine shop, and I've also worked it over with wire brushes, so it's as clean as it'll ever be.

Thanks for all the advice.

John

John
1953 Commander Coupe
1954 Champion Sedan
1963 Lark

[Kdancy]

SASCO has the # 1562875 replacement plugs for the earlier motors.
These are the ones that hook
inside the block and have an acorn head nut and seal washer.

[WCP]

Don't assume that the inside of the block is clean because it was hot tanked! I had a block brought to me last winter for rebuilding that had been "hot tanked". It was absolutely plugged with hard crud in the block rear. Use a bright flashlight or small 12v bulb soldered to a wire and drop down the rear block to head coolant passages. Look for buildup or bridging. It took me many hours to probe and chisel out the crud. A good shop will tank the block as many times as necessary to get it clean, but you will pay for that. Some shops give the block a single pass through the tank and that's it. Also probe the oil passages for sludge residue to ensure that they are absolutely clean.