working with pot metal?

[barnlark]

Boy, do I have a box of pot metal parts just waiting for a happy ending to this thread. I've seen the finished product on occasion, so I know it's not the Holy Grail. I was reading PackardV8's post with the great info and was anxiously waiting to get to the helpful repair explanation at the end of the pot metal's properties and...buzz kill. Might as well have been time travel machine blueprints! Sorry, I was just let down at the end of that..there has to be a real fix we can try.
There is a nearby "at great expense" shop that has someone that fixes pot metal specifically. I've seen hopeless stuff come out gorgeously done. Get in line and mortgage the house. I would love to try to fix mine and figure this out with the rest of you so my plater will just charge for plating.

[Allan Songer]

I have seen the process. The huge expense is all about the TIME it takes to fill every stinking little pit. I saw a Packard hood ornament in process a few years back--it took about TWENTY HOURS LABOR just to fill and smooth the pits (some of which CAME BACK after the nickel plating which meant STRIPPING and filling AGAIN). That the plater only charged $800 or so for the job made me see that nobody is getting filthy rich with a mom and pop plating shop that does high end work. And most of the big shops don't want to bother with this stuff.

It looked to me that these guys will filling the pits with something that looked alot like silver solder. Probably some sort of secret sauce in reality, but it sure looked like silver solder.

[Swifster]

The time & labor thing is why I wanted to try doing the repair myself. While I can't chrome plate in my garage, I can use a small propane torch and use as much of my personal time as necessary.

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Tom - Mulberry, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona - 289 4V, 4-Speed (Cost To Date: $2125.60)

[hank63]

I asked a plater, his reply -
Extended copper plating to create build up all over. Then sand off excess. Works with small to medium pitting, but costs a bit.
He showed me a test piece with 50% plating (he'd dipped half only). I thought the pitting was quite severe on the un-dipped half. The copper & chrome plated half looked superb, top show quality, if I'm any judge. The test piece was a 1955 Ford park light housing.
/H

[Rosstude]

[studegary]

quote:Originally posted by whacker

I have heard of small parts being used as masters for a lost wax metal casting mold, which is then used to make a one-off brass replacement part. The brass part is then plated. Sounds expensive, but it may still be cheaper than repair and replate of the pot metal part. It only works for small parts, I understand the '53 grill surrounds are too big. I read a magazine article about it, but I've never known anyone who actually did it.

Reproduction 1953-1954 C/K grille surrounds made out of brass have been available for many years. They are quite heavy, but do the job.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

[Radsman]

I had every piece of exterior chrome redone a couple of years ago on the Sky Hawk which included all of the pot metal; sidegrilles, headlight rings, taillight housings etc. It all came back show quality. The plating guy had to fix every pit and crack and did use the copper plating method. I even gave him some NOS pot metal stuff to replate so it would all look the same. He mentioned that when taking off the plating of non pitted NOS stuff, he could still encounter pits that would as well, need to be cleaned out, copper plated and filled.

[Radsman]

Here's a (stupid) thought. On the "American Chopper" type shows and such, they create (draw) and then make beautiful custom wheels for there bikes using automated 'water pik' machines. Could some of our pot metal stuff be used as 'models" to create some light weight, new metal alloy stuff like sidegrilles, etc. that then could be plated. I realize cost may be prohibitive. It's just a thought to throw out there.

[PackardV8]

Hi, Radsman,

FWIW, your suggestion is feasible and is done every day on high-dollar restorations. I work with a machinist who sometimes does CNC traces of NLA parts and manufactures replicas for Glenn Vaughn Restorations. When he is done, the part is better than the original and there isn't much change from the NLA thousand-dollar bill. Surprisingly, the big outline of the part is easy. It is all the recesses for lenses and little mounting bosses for studs or screws which take the most programming and machine time. Most all the reproduction parts are made from billet aluminum, as it is readily available and machines easily.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[Dick Steinkamp]

I addition to what Jack said, the SNM has engineering drawings for many (most?) Stude trim parts. With the drawings and associated measurements, you can create a 3D CAD/CAM file that can drive a CNC machine. Generally this would be used to create a mold, but you could "carve" an actual part using it too. The problem (for any sort of money making project) is cost...coupled with the relative low volume of any particular Studebaker trim part.

[dictator27]

Anyone have any experience with Caswell Plating's Pitstop product? It is a cold process. They say themselves that it is best to strip/ bead blast the part, remove any high spots or black stuff and copper plate it, then fill the pits with Pitstop and replate with copper, buff and chrome.

Terry

[wolfie]

Radsman,Ive been trying for almost a year to find someone to try cnc'ing a couple pieces for me with that same thought.I cant find anyone willing to do it but have been told by people in the know it will work.Seems there would be a market for the c/k beltline moldings anyway.Good luck,Steve

[PackardV8]

Greetings, Steve,

I'm willing to run them by the machinist I mentioned who does parts for Vaughn Restorations. Would you want them done in aluminum, brass, steel or stainless? PM me off list and I'll see if he is in the mood and what would be the cost. If you pay for the CNC programming, you own it and he would only make parts from it for you. If he can be convinced there is a market for the parts, he might be willing to make a run of them and sell them himself, only charging you for the parts you buy and not the programming time.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[wmsteve]

The thought has occured to me... Back-in-the day; was all of this "pot-metal filigee" that we have on all of the major (and minor) manufactured cars, made "In-House" by them, individually? Did they have a seperate divison to do this? Or, were they once made by small, American, sub-contracted companies? (Casting all this stuff-late at night-in their small shop; to keep-up with the order from: Ford, Chevy, Hudson, Stude... etc.?)

Historically, do they exist any more?

Where did this stuff come from?

PackardV8, Thank You!

Steve

[PackardV8]

Most of the trim parts for all the auto manufacturers were made for them by sub-contractors. There were exclusive contracts which precluded them from making parts for re-sale for the aftermarket.

Back in the day, literally tons of overruns were scrapped and melted back down because a particular model didn't sell as well as predicted. Then the molds were broken up.

Recently, I was at an auction of a 100-year-old automotive parts sub-contract company which had finally gone out of business. They began casting brass, then zinc and finally injection-molding plastic trim parts for cars. In one roped-off area of the warehouse, there were hundreds of pallets stacked to the ceiling; crates of grilles, tail light housings, headlights, trim parts. All of it was going to be shredded and put into a land fill. The assembled parts were never ordered delivered to the OEM and they comprised of so many different kinds of plastic, bits of copper and brass, they couldn't be recycled. The OEMs killed off this old-line company with "just-in-time" contracts which required them to manufacture and warehouse parts which were never needed.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8