Electrical: Not charging, generator vs voltage regulator?

[jnfweber]

Only 8 months ago I replaced my generator, voltage regulator, and battery in my 1957 President Classic. I had installed my SW ammeter myself connecting the + directly to the battery, - to ground. It never showed much deflection toward + [charging] from the beginning but I have not yet had the battery run down where it would not start the car. Yesterday I noticed it was (-) discharging with engine running @ 50 mph on the road. I checked the battery with voltmeter showing 12.5 volts with engine off, and only 12.5 volts engine running about 2,000 rpm. I called C.P. Generators, in business in Los Angeles for 50+ years who exchanged the Delco generator and voltage regulator with units they had rebuilt with a one year guarantee. They were unable to give me any information on how to check the generator and regulator on the car, and said "Studebakers are difficult to test these units on the car." They asked me to bring them back and they will test and replace them if necessary on Tuesday, when "Dad", who founded the company and does all the testing and adjusting voltage regulator output, would be in the shop. I have used them before, and believe the business to be a reliable re-builder in SoCal.

Question: Can anyone supply information for me to check generator and voltage regulator output at the units? It is a pain in the neck to remove the units and return them to the re-builder (30 minutes to remove and re-install, 2 hours to drive to and from re-builder).



Also, does anybody have any opinion about the newer, totally electronic battery chargers now about all that are available from LAPS? I have a few of the old Schauer mechanical chargers in Montana, but none here in California. Thanks for your input.

[DieselJim]

To test the generator, disconnect the field wire [small wire] on the generator. use a jumper wire and ground the field post. This will make the generator charge to the max. If it charges, the voltage regulator if faulty. No charge, the generator is faulty. On the regulator, remove the cover. Check the points on the field coil. Adding tension on the spring will increase the charge rate. Good luck.

[Ron Strasser]

jnfweber;
I question your connections of a ammeter. You connected it as if it is a volt meter. A ammeter is to have the minus terminal connected to the battery; the other terminal (plus) is to be connected to the generator or alternator . Also from the same terminal as the generator is connected a wire should go to the ignition switch to power the cars various electrical items. The only electrical item that should be connected directly to the battery is the power to the starter motor.
Yes Studebaker did the Avanti different; the power windows is connected on the battery side, as is the horn

DiselJims testing of the generator is correct for most Delco Generators only. Autolite generators can be different as are Prestolite Alternators.

As for the intelligent battery chargers. From what I have seen working on battery powered pallet lifts with a built in charger. If the battery is below a certain voltage the charger will not charge the battery. Wish I still had my Fathers old battery charger. It would charge anything. All it was is a transformer and a rectifier. Haden't invented diodes yet.
Ron

[Bud]

I agree with Ron, an ammeter does not connect like a volt meter. An ammeter is meant to be installed in series with the electrical load and not positive to negative. Normally an ammeter would be installed in line with the red 12 gauge wire connected directly to the starter solenoid with the battery lead from the voltage regulator connected to the load side of the ammeter in order for the ammeter to function correctly. Any other type of hook up will cause you problems. The charging system in a 1957 Studebaker is the same as many other GM cars from the same time period and there is no special test proceedure necessary to check the system. Bud

[TWChamp]

I agree that you connected the ammeter as though it was a volt meter, and if you truly connected an ammeter in such a way, it would be fired instantly.
Is your battery going dead, and what did the ammeter show?
Was it charging OK, then this problem started all of a sudden?

I was testing a generator the other day for a club member, and it motored fine when I polarized it.
The field winding drew the correct amperage.
But when I insulated the brushes from the commutator, then did a continuity check from the commutator to the armature shaft, it was shorted.

[Ron Strasser]

jnfweber;
I neglected to add a caution. If you elect to ground the field terminal of the generator be aware ; that if the generator is working it will go unregulated; to the full output capability of the generator. Make sure all accessories are off and do it for a short time; long enough to check if the generator is working. I would start the engine with the field disconnected then ground the generators field terminal; then disconnect the ground prior to turning off the engine.
Ron

[Frank DuVal]

All it was is a transformer and a rectifier. Haden't invented diodes yet.

But..... a rectifier is a diode! Now, was the rectifier a vacuum tube? That would be old. Tungar Bulb was a very poplar vacuum tube diode (rectifier) used in battery chargers.

[altair]

Reviewing all the posts it isn't mentioned to be assured that the generator itself is grounded. Some generators are grounded directly to the frame of the regulator, I have wired mine that way although it is not in the wiring diagram. I had removed a properly operating generator, painted the rusty bracket and reinstalled the gen only to have it fail until I scraped the paint off to maintain continuity. I now use a ground wire direct to the regulator to avoid any unwanted open circuits.

[jnfweber]

I agree that you connected the ammeter as though it was a volt meter, and if you truly connected an ammeter in such a way, it would be fired instantly.
Is your battery going dead, and what did the ammeter show?
Was it charging OK, then this problem started all of a sudden?

I was testing a generator the other day for a club member, and it motored fine when I polarized it.
The field winding drew the correct amperage.
But when I insulated the brushes from the commutator, then did a continuity check from the commutator to the armature shaft, it was shorted.

The ammeter has not been "fried" and has been connected for around two years. It shows the proper negative (-) deflection with the ignition turned on and both the "def" amd the "air" blowers operating full. Does not deflect however, with the head lights on or the brake pedal depressed. The battery has not gone dead in spite of multiple drives with the headlights on or working on the interior of the car with the doors open to add fluid to either the master cylinder or to the automatic transmission. About your other stuff with the generator, I don't understand enough of that to comment, but I just replaced the connecting rings on the "A" and the "F" wires, and will ground the Field post to the frame and check the generator with my multimeter.

[Ron Strasser]

Frank DuVal;
I realize that a rectifier can be a Diode. When I hear of a Diode I think of a solid state of the type that was developed in the early 50's My Fathers old charger was probably made prior to WWII.and had a selenium rectifier. Back in the 30's he owned a electric shop in NY City; that one of the shops business was picking up Radio Batteries from home owners and charging them for customers.
Ron

[Ron Strasser]

jnfweber;
Your ammeter can not have been connected as you mentioned in your first letter. I sounds like you have connected the wire to the ignition switch (Heat and other accessories) to the positive terminal of the ammeter along with the wire from the generator armature. Your lights are connected to the minus terminal of the ammeter or directly to the battery. The electricity that goes to the lights does not show up on the ammeter. The ammeter might show an increase in charging on the ammeter with the lights on and the engine running.
Ron

[jnfweber]

jnfweber;
Your ammeter can not have been connected as you mentioned in your first letter. I sounds like you have connected the wire to the ignition switch (Heat and other accessories) to the positive terminal of the ammeter along with the wire from the generator armature. Your lights are connected to the minus terminal of the ammeter or directly to the battery. The electricity that goes to the lights does not show up on the ammeter. The ammeter might show an increase in charging on the ammeter with the lights on and the engine running.
Ron

I'm sure you're right, Ron. I checked the ignition switch and the red [10 ga] wire goes from its left side to the ammeter.. I also grounded the generator field terminal and ran the engine (for only a very short time, as the generator made a loud "clanking" noise) and found the voltage 17.5 volts. I had replaced the almost absent wires at the connecting rings to the generator with new connections and measured the voltage across the battery, engine running, as high as 13.5 volts. I think poor connections were responsible for the low voltage I measured before. I think the "Dad" at CP Generator adjusted the voltage regulator so it would not charge too high to damage the battery. Thanks all for the help. Thanks everyone for the help.