Differences between valve bodies

[Rosstude]

[buddymander]

I bet there will be problems with a harsh 1-2 shift, but that can be alleviated by slowing down the fluid to the 2nd gear servo with a drilled plug. Also, I would think anybody going to the FGS would want to take advantage of a higher rearend ratio, which tends to soften shifts. It's my understanding that The forward clutch is applied during the first gear start, and the 2nd gear band is applied along with the forward clutch to accomplish 2nd gear. For third, the 2nd gear band is released while the direct clutch is applied, while maintaining the forward clutch application.

[bams50]

The valve body arrived today. It's new, never been used.

First step is to verify what it is. I don't see anything on it that looks to be a part number; here's what is onit:

5H200

5H201A

5H-203

These look more like individual component numbers.

Does anyone have any idea how to conclusively identify this?


Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

[buddymander]

Bam! How about posting a pic of the valve body? And I'm wondering what you are going to even put this valve body into if you don't have a transmission already? I'm assumming that you don't because you are waiting for a 2nd gear start valve body, right? From York?

[bams50]

I don't have anything to put it in right now, just bought it for future use because the price was right. Also am interested in the difference.

Just hoping to find a viable remedy for yet another dumb thing Studebaker did

As for picture, I'll do that this weekend if I get to my place with the hi-speed 'net; just dial-up here[V]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

[StudeRich]

Bob; (bams50) I really do admire your interest and concern for our perceived "problem" with our V-8 second gear start Flight-O-Matics!

However I submit that I would bet that you have never actually driven one!

Not meaning to be-little you in any way, but if you ask those of us that drive these cars and have for over 40 years and I don't mean "baby" them I mean "DRIVE" them! You will find that 95% of us are quite happy with both the performance and Economy of the setup! [^]

I still think it is great that you are committed to finding out how and doing the conversion, because I happen to be one of those 5% that AT TIMES, on "certain cars" would like to have that option!

But I need to explain why I think it is a "perceived" problem. In comparing other cars to Studebakers which several of you have attempted to do, there are differences that make the Engineers choice not as crazy as some of you think!
1. Studebakers have mid to low 3's numerical axle Ratios.
2.Studebaker V-8's have quite good Torque for their C.I. and H.P. more than SBC 265 & 283.
3.The Torque multiplication in the ORIGINAL Converters not only is high and contributes to the power available in Low range, but the stall speed WAS different in 259,289 & Avanti! now-days with just the one S2 I believe industry wide re-built available they either are all the same or all mixed up as they are exchanged.
4. If you research gear ratios, (I have not) but I would bet you find Studebaker's "Low" much lower than most 3 speed Automatics.
5. Second Gear is a very well thought out ratio that is compatible with the Std. axle ratios that were used and is quite capable of quite fast acceleration when needed.
6. Do not forget that a properly adjusted FOM will quickly downshift to Low with a mere flooring of the "GO" pedal! This is truly the best of both worlds! You get better economy with 2nd. gear start, and you can select Low manually for faster starts, "hold" second if needed, downshift from Hi, downshift from 2nd. go 70MPH+ in second gear! What more could you ask?

After owning and driving all kinds of Stude V-8's, many with FOM, for over 46 years and doing some drag racing.
Recently, I have been driving my latest driver now over 3 years, it is a '59 Lark VIII Regal 4dr. 259 with FOM and a model 23 TT 3.31 ratio axle and is all original standard configuration as built.

This car is truly amazing! It has excellent take-off power with only single exhaust and 2 brl. and cruises the Interstate very well at 65 to 80 with no high RPM engine roar AND gets 18-20 MPG it is just a joy to drive! I am to say the least, VERY HAPPY with this old tired engine, 96,000 mile car, can't wait until Spring when I put a fresh rebuilt 259 with a new Edelbrock AFB clone and dual exhausts in it! [^] Yeah, I know! Then I'll need a 44 TT axle![:0]

Also I do not doubt for a minute that "your results may vary"! I have a '64 Daytona with the same 259 2V FOM with the 3.07 gears, and do not like the slow starts, so...there you go! Different strokes (axles) for different folks!

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

[JDP]

I have first gear start conversion on my Powershift R2 Hawk with a 3:73 rear that is 1st gear start with the selector in "2". I found that after a few miles, I preferred keeping the selector in "D" with second gear start. The kick in your back on the 1-2 upshift during normal driving at 10-20 MPH got old in a hurry. If it was a 3:07, maybe even a 3:31, it might me different.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
39 Coupe express

[PackardV8]

As StudeRich says, "your results may vary." I ALWAYS started my Avanti Powershift in first gear and manually shifted it to second and third. I did it because I consider it a performance car and I drive it that way. If another owner thinks his Stude is at its best trailered to a show, or pooping around in Drive, well, good on 'em.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

[JDP]

True, my R2 Hawk is a performance car, but I see no need to accidentally break the rear tires loose at a light when I apply just a bit too much throttle. Besides, the 1-2 upshift will come about half way through the intersection anyway, so I don't see the point most of the time. I don't trailer my cars, nor do I feel starting in second like the factory did is pooping around.


JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
39 Coupe express

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

2.Studebaker V-8's have quite good Torque for their C.I. and H.P. more than SBC 265 & 283.

1956 Chevy 265 4 bbl 205 HP and 268 ft pounds of torque
1963 Studebaker 259 4 bbl 195 HP 265 ft pounds of torque

1961 Chevy 283 4 bbl 230 HP 300 ft pounds of torque
1963 Studebaker 289 4 bbl 225 HP 305 ft pounds of torque

All #'s from my 1963 Motors Manual. I had to use older Chevy engines since Chevy had gone to bigger and more powerful engines by 1963 and the comparison would not be apples to apples.

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by JDP
but I see no need to accidentally break the rear tires loose at a light when I apply just a bit too much throttle.

You've either got rock hard tires, a REAL heavy right foot, or 4 something rear end gears. I've driven (and owned) quite a few Ford Cruisomatic equipped cars (essentially a Powershift)...including a 406 and never had that problem unless I "power braked" it.

[JDP]

Don't forget, they are bias ply 6:70x15 and with a blower and 3:73 gears it's kind of jumpy. Not saying it'll light up the tires, just squeals on occasion if you get froggy.

JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
39 Coupe express

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by JDP

Don't forget, they are bias ply 6:70x15 and with a blower and 3:73 gears it's kind of jumpy. Not saying it'll light up the tires, just squeals on occasion if you get froggy.

The blower really does nothing off idle. Older bias ply tires could be a problem .

[bams50]

quote:Originally posted by StudeRich


However I submit that I would bet that you have never actually driven one!

Not meaning to be-little you in any way, but if you ask those of us that drive these cars and have for over 40 years and I don't mean "baby" them I mean "DRIVE" them! You will find that 95% of us are quite happy with both the performance and Economy of the setup!

You're right on, Rich- I haven't ever driven one[:I] Second gear start just seems like a bad idea, backed up by the fact that plenty of folks seem to be seeking first-gear starting. WhileI've never driven one, I thought about any number of non-Studes I've driven and imagined driving one of them starting in second gear and did NOTlike that picture[xx(] I will, as always, defer to the judgment of those more knowledgeable to me... but it seemed like an inexplicable bad idea by Stude that anyone would want to rectify if they could, hence my interest in this idea. Thanks to you, I'll still continue with this investigation; but when I get my first auto. Stude I'll certainly drive it some before I consider changing it.

Thanks for your input; you didn't "be-little" me at all- you were teaching, and Heaven knows I have plenty of room for that![^]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

[JDP]

OK Dick, the only way for me to get out of this thread is retract my opinion. I love first gear start, can't live without it, it's a joy to use. Matter of fact, I may never shift out out first again.


JDP/Maryland
63 R2 SuperHawk (Caesar)
spent to date $54664,75
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Lark 2 door
57 wagon
39 Coupe express