Engine noise question - hammer

[Skip Lackie]

Engine back in and drove it around the block today. Very smooth running engine. Also, when the engine is warm it barely starts and the battery is new. All connections are tight and clean. I've read that some folks have converted to 12 volts. Just wondering if that's my next move.

Would be helpful to have more info on "when the engine is warm it barely starts". Does it turn over slowly only when hot? It could be that your starter bushings/bearings are worn and the commutator is binding. And another ground wire to a starter bolt might help.

If it turns over normally but just won't fire, as noted above, could be too-volatile fuel.

[studegary]

Check the timing and make sure your cables are the correct size for six volts (you can't go by the exterior size)..

[chlenz62]

From the maintenance manual I received with the car, it appears my 6 cylinder manual transmission drive train has a timing of 4 degrees BTDC. I'll check the timing this evening and adjust as necessary. I will also check the radiator cap and most likely will order a new one. Not sure what the correct guage of wire from the battery to the engine block and starter motor should be. Couldn't find this information but they are large but perhaps not large enough. If someone could share this piece of information, that would be very helpful. When I say the engine almost won't start when it's warm, I mean the starter motor cannot rotate the engine. Almost expected to see smoke coming from the starter motor. When the engine does begin to rotate, it fires off relatively easily.

[Skip Lackie]

Double 0 welding cable is a good choice for 6 volt battery cables. Your local auto parts store probably won't have it, but might be able to order it. A battery specialty shop will make them up for you if you can't find any ready-made.

[chlenz62]

So my cables are 1 gauge. Sounds like I need to upsize them? Double 0 is hefty.

[Ross]

Those are very smooth engines with a lot of low speed torque; a real pleasure to drive. The carbs are not problematic and are easy to rebuild. Something is causing a lean condition if popping back through the carb. The Commander engines do like to have their heat riser working properly to prevent flat spots and popping when still cool. Mine runs in the lower quarter of the gage; check that you have a 160 thermostat, or 180 max. Timing affects temp of course. I have tried some extra advance for performance and economy but have settled on no more than 1or 2 degrees more than the factory setting. Excess timing advance makes the engine fight the starter, especially when warm.
My 50 turns over briskly on 6 volts, and it is much cheaper and easier to return the car to a standard condition than to make all the changes for 12 volt. A starter rebuild would be in order probably, but I have had great improvements on several 6v cars by replacing the solenoid; they seem to increase in resistance over a 67 year span. Pay close attention to cleaning the ends of the copper strap between the solenoid and starter post. In fact, try that first.

[chlenz62]

Great advice and all makes sense. I just order two sets of 3' 1/0 battery cables and a set of military battery connectors. Run in parallel, two 1/0 cables are equivalent to one 4/0 cable. That should suffice! I would like to time the car but the timing marks are like nothing I have ever seen. Here is a photo of them. Can someone interpret these marks for me and I'll adjust my timing. So much appreciate the feedback!

[Ross]

That line next to the N in IGN is what you are aiming for. Pointer is on the timing cover pretty much on the centerline of the engine.

[chlenz62]

Progress. Adjusted the automatic choke. Added two 1/0 cables for negative and positive and the starter seems to have a little more umph. Replaced the thermostat. The old one was 192 degF and I installed a 180 degF thermostat. Engine started up and ran at a high idle. I disconnected the vacuum advance and set the timing. Unfortunately, the engine continued to heat up until the radiator cap open up and coolant flowed from the pressure relief line. The radiator was cold to the touch. The engine temperature gauge was pegged. Everything seems to indicate I'm not getting water flow through the engine block. The heater core under the passenger side of the front seat was warm so I was getting water flow through this. I think I'll remove the thermostat and run the engine again. Any thoughts from anyone?

[studegary]

Possible internal hose collapse or defective water pump, such as corroded away or the impeller isn't turning.

[Jerry Forrester]

Sounds like a stopped up radiator to me.

[JoeHall]

I'd start with insuring the lower radiator hose is not collapsing. When cold, squeeze it by hand. It should have a wire coil inside that prevents you from being able to squeeze it flat. If not, male a coil out of thin coat hanger for now. If the hose already has a coil inside, remove the waterpump and look for obvious problems. If no problems there, remove the water pump manifold and look for obvious problems. When I say obvious, be surprised at nothing, i.e. gaskets covering the holes, WP with damaged impeller, etc..

Whatever you do, when you run it next time, do not allow it to overheat. If the gauge climbs toward hot,shut it off. Need to figure out the problem, but avoid overheating the motor repeatedly, or you could cause major damage, i.e. galled piston rings.

[chlenz62]

I purchased a "this radiator will fit your vehicle" radiator through Amazon. Well . . . I completed the installation of the radiator on Sunday using a sawzall, a grinder, and a multitude of tools. Yesterday I completed the water lines. It took me three days to find a combination of hoses that worked with my new radiator. Nothing about the new radiator matched the original radiator. Nonetheless, it's in the car and hooked up. I started the engine and observed very good water flow as I have also removed the thermostat. Unfortunately, the temperature gauge pegged itself in less than two minutes. But I also noticed the charging amps were extremely high. So I measured the voltage coming from the generator and it was 8.8 volts and climbing. I pulled the temperature sensor and installed a mechanical temperature gauge. The engine temperature stabilized at 170 degF with no thermostat and the engine idling. The old radiator is probably blocked as well since I did get steam blowing out of the radiator cap prior to pulling it on previous trials. So I may have been dealing with two simultaneous failures. So now I'm focusing on the voltage regulator and my whistling carburetor. Plan to run her around the block today when I get home. Making progress and sincerely appreciate the tremendous amount of great advice from all you experts.

[JoeHall]

You could have easily checked for blocked radiator with a garden hose, without even removing it from the car: disconnect both hoses; plug the top one off, put the hose in the cap hole, turn it on and watch for water flow out the bottom. I have never seen a blocked radiator, but anything is possible. Hopefully you did not throw the old radiator away.

[chlenz62]

Absolutely not! The radiator appears to be in very good shape. I used 800 grit sandpaper to clean the contacts on the voltage regulator and voila, it works perfectly. Drove it around a couple of blocks and the engine temperature settled in at 180 degF.