New Info on CC655 Springs...

[RodneyRed]

My driver is a 53 studebaker on a 57 hawk frame. I also have a 59 hawk and and various parts.
You are right about the glitch. Later in the ad it shows a leaf and coil spring, but it calls it a long travel coil spring.

All the springs I have, about 6, are constant rate springs. And the pictures and manuals show constant rate springs, but that is pictures.

The Studebaker International catalogue picture shows a constant rate spring and list same springs for 1953-1966 except Avanti.

The spring from the Avanti in the 01/09/17 post standing next to the one he is using as a replacement is a constant rate spring. His proposed replacement spring is a variable rate spring. That alone seems to indicate that not "all" Studebakers had variable rate front springs UNLESS his spring is not OEM


My research over the last few days points to a constant rate spring being the best choice for front coil springs. However, short of having CSS or Eaton make a spring or buying them from SI, a variable rate spring might be a cheaper compromise.

I would love to know where you found your information that all Studebakers after 57 used variable rate for the front coils.

[RodneyRed]

Contacted Eaton spring yesterday. Here are Mike's comments. I am Jerry not Redney,

Jerry,

Thanks for the information. The front springs are to be a constant rate. The reason you read that some are using variable rate springs is because there are some Studebaker suppliers who are selling rear Buick variable rate springs that come close to the Studebaker specs.

Variable rate springs should not be used on the front suspension.

The specs you provided come close to the OE standard duty springs.

A new set of springs is 249.95 plus shipping.

Thank You
Mike
EATON Detroit Spring, Inc.
Phone 1-313-963-3839
Fax 1-313-963-7047
www.eatonsprings.com
mike@eatonsprings.com

[JoeHall]

Jerry,
As already mentioned, variable, a.k.a. progressive rate springs have been OEM in many Studes since 1957. Spring technology continues to advance, and modern progressives are, in many cases a vast improvement over constant rate. When properly mated to a vehicle by weight and suspension travel, progressives produce a smooth ride that eats up small bumps, road joint junctions, small pot holes, etc.. When they come upon larger road bumps or dips, during sudden braking, and swerving, they firm up progressively, and become as stiff as the situation calls for, but no more.


You looked up all the data and specs, and that's wise, but at some point you have to test the hypothesis. You also asked EATON and CCS for opinions, but remember they make and sell springs for a living. I am sure it pains them to admit there's a common, ready made progressive spring available for Studebaker V8s. Over the decades, I have had CSS make several pairs of HD, constant rate springs (part #526125) for 56Js. They were to exact spec, and do the job as well as they did in 1956. But then a few years ago, I installed a set of the modern MOOG progressives (CC655) in a 56J and two GT Hawks. I have driven each car several thousand miles since, and the difference is night and day. I will never go back to standard rate. Progressives perform as wonderfully on Studes as they do on motorcycles and other modern vehicles. Thanks to our in house engineer of sorts, Jim Pepper, for coming up with the MOOG CC665s as a suggested replacement for Stude V8s, a few years ago. Do a search and you will find the MOOGs have already been tested extensively, on many Stude V8s, and the jury is in.

At about $50 a pair, none of the spring specialty companies can come close in price. So, for once the Stude drivers get a break in price, and a suspension upgrade at the same time!

[StudeRich]

/Cut/I would love to know where you found your information that all Studebakers after 57 used variable rate for the front coils.

Hi Jerry, sorry about the name error, most people who include a First Name in their "Handle" use their correct name, my error in Assuming!

After selling Studebaker Parts at Two original Studebaker Dealers and one aftermarket Stude. dealer and on my own for 46 years, you get to know the Part numbers and applications pretty well, and it never hurts to have owned over 100 of them and currently over 40!
Plus having a Studebaker Salesman Dad.

Yes there would always be exceptions as on Fleet, Taxi, Police, Export, Special Ordered with H.D. and Avantis, many of which use the old 526XXX Part Number '51-'52 Commander constant rate front coils as do some pre-1957 Models.

As I mentioned in Post #30, the variable rate springs are on most 1957 and later cars BUT, they have a Rep. for short life and do sag relatively soon, which is why most Stude. owners "in the know" have replaced them with the H.D. version as early as the early 1960's.

Good luck with your Spring replacement project, unfortunately the tested and proven, very reasonable Moog CC655's are long gone from production.

Rich.

[JoeHall]

Hi Jerry, sorry about the name error, most people who include a First Name in their "Handle" use their correct name, my error in Assuming!

After selling Studebaker Parts at Two original Studebaker Dealers and one aftermarket Stude. dealer and on my own for 46 years, you get to know the Part numbers and applications pretty well, and it never hurts to have owned over 100 of them and currently over 40!
Plus having a Studebaker Salesman Dad.

Yes there would always be exceptions as on Fleet, Taxi, Police, Export, Special Ordered with H.D. and Avantis, many of which use the old 526XXX Part Number '51-'52 Commander constant rate front coils as do some pre-1957 Models.

As I mentioned in Post #30, the variable rate springs are on most 1957 and later cars BUT, they have a Rep. for short life and do sag relatively soon, which is why most Stude. owners "in the know" have replaced them with the H.D. version.

Good luck with your Spring replacement project, unfortunately the tested and proven, very reasonable Moog CC655's are long gone from production.

Rich.

Newsflash Rich,
After several decades of holding the front end up, the constant rate springs were not immune to sagging either. That's why I bought several sets of them for 56Js. While at it, I always went to the HD 526125 versus the standard 526124, because the 56J benefits from the extra strength spring. Once new springs are installed, no matter which we choose, none of us will likely live long enough to ever have to replace them again

[Kvach Butters]

Starting in 1958 Hawks started using variable rate front springs, The rear springs were shifted rearward making the front section shorter than the rear measured from the center of the axle. I believe this helped anti dive under braking and wheel hope under acceleration. Most of this was mimicked by Chrysler in the 60s along with a pinion snubber which can be found on 61 Hawk 4 speed cars.

[Skybolt]

Newsflash Rich,
After several decades of holding the front end up, the constant rate springs were not immune to sagging either. That's why I bought several sets of them for 56Js. While at it, I always went to the HD 526125 versus the standard 526124, because the 56J benefits from the extra strength spring. Once new springs are installed, no matter which we choose, none of us will likely live long enough to ever have to replace them again

I hope to beat the snot out of my 655's and have to replace them. I don't want to think my car will not get enough miles on it before I die. I'm only 56.

Len

[RodneyRed]

Thanks Rich. The name is actually a company I sell radiators under. I just wanted everyone to know who the Jerry was.

These responses are the sort of information and experience I needed. I really would prefer to do this project only one time. I can still locate 655 springs from other manufacturers at a reasonable cost. I am being persuaded to go with the 655 if it does not affect wheel travel adversely.

This project has been a very educational process. I changed to a Corsica rack only to learn about the "ackerman angle" and how it affects turning radius. Those studebaker boys were good on their slide rule in calculating the radius of the pitman arm. Installing a rack changed everything.

I also manufactured angles to make Chamber easier to adjust, but am not satisfied with caster. I can only get about 1-1/2 degrees with out the kingpins binding. When I change the spring I am going to make a kit to add about 1 1/2 degrees to the caster. The car drives great, but is a little sensitive to drifting I think the extra caster will keep it tracking better. Modern cars with power steering have closer to three degrees of caster.

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

The Moog CC655 spring may be out of production, but the springs are available from Oreillys Auto Parts [and I'm sure thru others as well]
I just checked tonight at Oreillys.... the springs manufactured by Precision Coil Springs #PRE SP08055 are the same as Moog CC6555. $99.00 overnight delivery.
I ordered a set of the Precision springs a while back [see the reference to those posts in another thread in post #2 above]
The springs came in a box with a yellow Precision Coil Springs label plastered over another label. Underneath is a Moog label.
The Precision Springs label is marked "PRE SP08055"
Under that is marked "MOO CC655"
The instruction sheet inside has no manufacturers info other than "Form 3694" [possibly a Moog form number ?]
So the springs are not gone, just manufactured under a different manufacturers name.
I just eyeballed the springs and can find no manufacture info on them.
OH Yeah, made in U S A.

[junior]

...This project has been a very educational process. I changed to a Corsica rack only to learn about the "ackerman angle" and how it affects turning radius. Those studebaker boys were good on their slide rule in calculating the radius of the pitman arm. Installing a rack changed everything.

I also manufactured angles to make Chamber easier to adjust, but am not satisfied with caster. I can only get about 1-1/2 degrees with out the kingpins binding. When I change the spring I am going to make a kit to add about 1 1/2 degrees to the caster. The car drives great, but is a little sensitive to drifting I think the extra caster will keep it tracking better. Modern cars with power steering have closer to three degrees of caster...

If you have the time, please start a new thread on this topic and share the info you have discovered on this topic. thanks, Junior

[Quentin]

new moog 655's in my 63 Hawk; sits a bit higher in the front than it did with 50 year old springs , but looks great.