New Info on CC655 Springs...

[karterfred88]

What is the length of the 661 spring?

Here's link to most spring specs. I have a more comprehensive catalogue but too big to post. http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com...il_springs.asp

[StudeNorm]

The CC661 springs I have are about 1/2 -3/4 inch shorter than the springs I removed from my Avanti. That being said I don't know if the springs were original to the car or were replaced when the car was restored back in 1985. Judging by the sag to the front end when I got it I would expect they were original... I can get a number and even post a side by side pic later this evening or you can check the specs on the above link.

[11SecAvanti]

I have just replaced a broken Avanti spring and the replacement spring measured 14 inches end to end. A local replaced his springs with the CC 655 set and now his front end sits up to high (like an Avanti II). So both of these springs are not a good swap on an early Avanti IMO.

[Xcalibur]

Regarding Moog springs... anyone dealing with coils might want to check the "home' site of the Website noted above, if not mentioned before. If one knows roughly where they are starting from, this might give some guidance where to go and offer options to explore. Btw, this site lists the cc661 noted above as a variable-rate, if not noted somewhere above or elsewhere.

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_coil_springs.asp#springrate

[StudeNorm]

I have a (fuzzy) comparison pic of the CC661 spring beside the R2 spring I removed from my Avanti. The 661 is 13.25" unloaded. The original but tired R2 spring is 14". It might need a spacer to get it to set up at a desired static ride height but it may actually work really good as is if you like the raked look.

[plee4139]

My freshly restored Sky Hawk had a driver's side sagging spring, even though they were new. The man who restored the car thought that it had been parked unevenly on a hill, and the frame was affected. I had a body shop put some rubber shims in, but now it sits too high.I thought it might settle down some, but it hasn't. I'm afraid if I take it to them to correct the problem they'll charge me an arm, a leg, and probably some additional body parts. Suggestions?

[nels]

My freshly restored Sky Hawk had a driver's side sagging spring, even though they were new. The man who restored the car thought that it had been parked unevenly on a hill, and the frame was affected. I had a body shop put some rubber shims in, but now it sits too high.I thought it might settle down some, but it hasn't. I'm afraid if I take it to them to correct the problem they'll charge me an arm, a leg, and probably some additional body parts. Suggestions?

Don't know if this is your problem but you might check to see that the end of both springs are pointing toward the engine. If one is and one isn't you could see a difference in vehicle height right to left.

[nels]

How did you that tried these, deal with the "Squared" ends of these Replacement Springs as apposed to the Flattened and Level seated Original Studebaker Springs fitment into the smooth, Level pockets in both the "A" Arm and the Frame?

The squared ends of the GM Springs were designed to fit into a dead ended Link Pocket in the Trailing Arms.

I've used these springs before but did modify them. Initially I installed as purchased with the round ends. However, I noticed that on occasion I heard a significant clicking noise in the front suspension when coming to a sudden stop. The noise was coming from the second last coil camming over the last coil while compressing. If you notice, the Stude coil is flat on the top and bottom of the last coil. The grinding eliminated this cam over last coil clicking or thump or thud or however I might try to describe it. I ground a flat on the the top of each lower coil to keep this camming over tendency from occurring. It did cure the problem.

[JoeHall]

I have installed CC665s in two GT Hawks and one 56J, and all were done around 20,000 miles ago. I did not modify them in any way, but did use rubber pads on both ends of the coils; if you don't have any handy, a slit, thick garden hose works great. The GTs still sit perfectly, and never any noise out of any of them. But the 56J has dropped about 1/2 to 3/4 inch. I will probably install a set of 1/2" spacers in the 56J, if I ever drop the front springs again. It has Saginaw PS, AC, and a huge radiator, so lots of extra weight on that 56J anyway.

As for spacing, the geometry is such that spacers effect height at a 1 to 1.5 ratio. In other words, a 1/2" spacer will lift the car 3/4". One thing to keep in mind, after major suspension work, i.e. new springs or bushings, the car needs a few thousand miles for the suspension to settle down. Eventually, it will settle a half inch or so.

As for Plee's car sitting too high on the driver's side, I'd rather too high than too low, because if low it gets even worse when the driver has a seat in the car. OTOH, if it sits too high, it gets better when the driver has a seat in the car. Many V8 Stude's came with a 1/8" or 3/16" spacer under the driver's side spring. I believe that was to address the extra weight on the driver's side for battery, power steering, and driver weight. It may sit a bit high when sitting still, but probably is closer to even when going down the road. Then too, I'd give it a few thousand miles to see if it settles enough to become tolerable.

[RodneyRed]

I have been reading the information on the Moog CC655 (discontinued) and feel that while it would function a variable rate spring would not be the best choice for th efront suspension. Variable rate springs are designed to become stiffer as loaded and would give a harder ride. A constant rate spring would be a better choice. If you have observed a modern car on the interstate when it navigates bumps or dips, there is a lot of wheel movement which allows for a smother ride. A variable rate spring would restrict that movement during compression where as a constant rate spring would give the same rate throughout compression.


The best information I have found was from Coil Spring Specialties. http://coilsprings.com Their data for a 55 Commander showed a spring rate of 257 pounds. The V8 engine weighs 650 pounds. ( I have a 53 Champion with a Pontiac 400 engine which weighs 640#.) CSS had that information.

Spring rate is how many pounds is required to compress the spring one inch. However, there are other factors to consider, free height, compressed height, and load rate. Free height and compressed height will determine the working range and load rate will determine a ride height.

Also, you need to know the sprung weight for both front tires, everything supported by the springs.

CSS did not have the free height, compressed height, or load rate, but I have measurements or good estimates of what the OEM spring would be. The person I talked to was going to locate that information for me.

For the CSS OEM spring P/N 200200 $237
Free height is estimated 14”
Compressed height estimated is 10”
Spring rate is 257 pounds
Load rate is estimated 900 pounds


The closet spring I found from Moog was P/N 5711 $52

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_coil_springs.asp

http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-5711

Both ends squared
Free height 14.69”
Compressed height 10.5”
Spring rate 201 pounds
Load rate 860 Pounds


The load rate seems close enough to work and should allow the compressed height to give a good ride height.
I am a little concerned about the spring rate bottoming out to easy, but it would be a much softer ride and might tip toe over bumps.

I am going to weigh my Studebaker next week which will give me better data.

I think the difference between CSS and Moog might be a $250 ride vs a $50 ride. However, the Moog 5711 spring in the least would be a good starting point CSS said that they could build custom springs.

[bezhawk]

Studebaker DID use variable rate springs in some of their cars starting in 1957. Read some of their advertising .

[RodneyRed]

Did they use them in the front? Variable rate springs are most often used in the rear. I don't have anything advertising springs. A service manual for 57 hawks I have shows HD springs. Perhaps those are variable rate. Never the less, variable rate springs are going to give you a stiffer ride. Any springs I have from Studebaker front are constant rate.

[jackb]

leaf springs out back on all Studes.....pre-war exceptions ??

[RodneyRed]

Found it. They were rear springs. Studebaker called them two stage springs. A constant rate spring would be better for the front. http://storm.oldcarmanualproject.com...7/ssw/0203.jpg

[StudeRich]

I do not know what years of Studes. you are into Rodney, but all Studebakers from 1957 on, advertised and had as STANDARD equipment Variable Rate Front Coil Springs with close spacing at one end and wide at the other.

The OPTIONAL H.D. Springs were all even spaced Coils and did not "Sag" in 5 years like all variable Rate Springs do.

The Optional on 1/2 Ton Trucks, and Standard on most heavier Trucks "Two Stage" Rear Leaf springs were called that, not "Variable Rate".

That '57 Wagon Ad was a Advertising Co. glitch/error, they are referring to the "Extra leaf" on Wagon Springs, ONLY ONE, not a second Stack like on Trucks.