'Gotta hand it to Ford...

[BobPalma]

At present, Ford is 'subservient' to all the financial institutions that loaned them the cash to remain afloat during that time and they sold the family name to do so. What really kept Ford from declaring bankruptcy in 2008/2009 was the all-new Fiesta that was just introduced in Europe right as the crisis hit, and to Ford's credit, it won all kinds of accolades and awards, including the European Car of the Year, which was no small feat, given the competition there. Today, Ford's huge (and I mean HUGE) challenge is to remain ahead of the competition worldwide; The US mainly for trucks, and Europe mainly for passenger cars, and it is no small priority given the competition from Japan and Germany. And with full-size truck completion from Japan, Ford MUST take and accept these challenges to remain and stay ahead of the competition. Craig

Easy, Craig; they didn't sell the family name and logo, etc; they pledged it as collateral. Perfectly legitimate, since those items had good, known intellectual value and lenders want "things" of value for loan collateral.

When the loans were paid off, the rights to the name and logo reverted back to Ford...which was several years ago, IIRC.

Anyway, I posted those links because most of us here are interested in technology and the marketing that must accompany it, especially in regards to something as major as aluminum alloys replacing steel in major truck components.

I do wish we could reflect on that instead of unnecessary, irrelevant Ford bashing. Geeze, Louise. (Not necessarily you, Craig; I don't mean to imply that.) BP

[SN-60]

Geeze, Louise. [/COLOR] (Not necessarily you, Craig; I don't mean to imply that.) BP

Apparently, you haven't had very much experience with Ford products over the years Bob.....That's OK...Stick with Studebaker!

[8E45E]

I do wish we could reflect on that instead of unnecessary, irrelevant Ford bashing. Geeze, Louise. (Not necessarily you, Craig; I don't mean to imply that.) BP

Thanks, Bob; especially when I did state in a previous post in this thread, I am a satisfied Ford F-150 owner.

Craig

[Bob Andrews]

Apparently, you haven't had very much experience with Ford products over the years Bob.....That's OK...Stick with Studebaker!

I know I have. Sold hundreds over the years, most from 80k miles to over 150k. All sizes and models from Focus up to F450. My rollback has 365k. Our family traveler/tow vehicle/camper '02 conversion van has 194k. Sold 3 Fords in August, 2 in September, 4 in October, 2 in November. My real-world experience is that overall they are good products.

Again, that's my actual, real-world experience; as opposed to folks that draw conclusions based upon one bad experience, or what they overhead somebody say somewhere.

[BobPalma]

What Bob Andrews said.

Those of us in the car business know that every company has made some horrible cars and that same company has made some outstanding cars (and trucks).

Generalizations about a specific manufacturer (not necessarily a model from that manufacturer) are always silly. A 1971 Chevy pickup with a 350 V8 and automatic will last forever if maintained reasonably well. The 1971 Vega that was parked next to it on the showroom floor would be lucky to last 18 months without some serious issue unless driven unusually gently and maintained to the letter...and even then, it would be a crap shoot. BP

[benaslopoke]

Whether by design or coincidence, Ford made a good choice.. The aftermarket is being taken over by the Asian sheet metal industry for collision parts.. Let them try this for a change.. Joe's body shop has to stay hands off for a while.. Ford dealers get the body business at a higher cost to all involved.. After 46 years in the business, Ford has not impressed me one bit as to reliability or design.. They had to do something to catch up to the Chevy's actual economy..

[dictator27]

Again, that's my actual, real-world experience; as opposed to folks that draw conclusions based upon one bad experience, or what they overhead somebody say somewhere.

This is a really valid point. I worked for all three of them in my working life and my order of preference was and is Ford first, Chrysler second, GM not even on the horizon. This is based entirely on a forty year old opinion, but the passage of that time has done nothing to convince me that I should even walk through the door of my local GM dealer which I can easily walk to.

I currently own a 30 foot class C motorhome based on an E450 Superduty V10 chassis. Totally satisfied with it.

Terry

[8E45E]

The aftermarket is being taken over by the Asian sheet metal industry for collision parts..

NOTHING says they won't use replacement steel body parts which will be cheaper than aluminum; not to mention the paint prep work will be presumably cheaper with steel. Body shops that use offshore replacement panels are price-shoppers as it is, and know the consumer won't care what it is made of as long as the paint on it is shiny and matches the adjacent panels.

Craig

[Deaf Mute]

WOW... what a read. Oh well I can't afford a new vehicle anyway. My '99 F-250 has 87K miles on it and Momma's '04 Fusion has 134K on it & I hope they will both last 500K miles. (just had to stick $1300 into the F250's mill replacing coils etc.) Gee If I could just put a 289 Stude with fuel injection into the F-250...

[StudeNorm]

Fuel economy being the motivator, I am surprised by the big, flat frontal profile of the 2015 F-150. I had a '97 with 5.4 and it got about 20mpg(US) on the hiway at 65 mph. I guess CAFE values are figured at a lower cruising speed than we normally drive. My '07 Dodge diesel gets 22mpg at 65 but drop the speed to 50 and it is up nearer to 30mpg. I consider it a big air dam, too.

[SScopelli]

Yes, that's another major concern with an 'all aluminum' bodied Ford truck...As most of us have come to realize over many years in the business..."If there's a s---box to be built, Ford will build it!"

I really do not get the extreme negativity here. In the past 30 years, it really has been Ford that has advanced the "American" car experience. And I'll have to disagree that all s...boxes are Ford built.

I guess the "FACT" that millions of airplanes are built out of aluminum and, gee Ed, they do not seem to be disintegrating out of the sky from Salt exposure.

Corrosion prevention in aluminum is way easier than it is ferrous metal because of the way it oxidizes.

This beauty was built in 1945.. The only corrosion issues were in the ferrous metals, and it came from the FL Keys!



As is with any technology, its the cost! Since Ford has found a way to economically manufacture a truck out of aluminum, they should be commended and not arm chair quarterbacked.

I have no idea what business you are in that you speak of, but I do believe Ford has been in the car business way longer than you, and I'm sure they employ some of the best minds. So stop guessing them on if they know about galvanic reaction of dissimilar metals.

Has every car been a winner? No, but what car manufacture bats a 1000? Also, with the computerization of automobiles, Ford was the leader in promoting the OBD coding. They also use the most subset of codes for diagnostic, and are leading the way in the aftermarket use of software and hardware for vehicle enhancements.

Oh, and I had an 1986 Ford Tempo GLS, That went 300K miles before it was let go for my 2002 Sequoia..

[Packard53]

Bob Palma: Please give me the date when Ford Automotive division paid off the $23 Billion they bowered back between 2006 and 2007. If I am correct between 2011 and 2012 they had repaid about half of the $23 Billion. As of a few days ago their outstanding debt was about $9.5 Billion.

John S.

[jnormanh]

What Bob Andrews said.

Those of us in the car business BP

No offense intended, Bob, but I didn't know you are "in the car business". How so?

[SScopelli]

Bob Palma: Please give me the date when Ford Automotive division paid off the $23 Billion they bowered back between 2006 and 2007. If I am correct between 2011 and 2012 they had repaid about half of the $23 Billion. As of a few days ago their outstanding debt was about $9.5 Billion.

John S.

A bit of fact check..

You should relay check them before you post..

From Motley Fool February 4, 2013

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/02/04/do-you-understand-fords-debt-because-youd-better.aspx

"It started two years before the great recession, when Alan Mulally was named CEO of Ford. One of the first things he accomplished was receiving a large loan to assist the troubled automaker with capital needed to turn the company around. Mulally described it as "a cushion to protect for a recession or other unexpected event." It wasn't easy to secure the $23.4 billion dollar loan, as Ford had to put up its heritage, its prized Blue Oval logo as collateral. If you're keeping score, that makes it: Mulally/Ford 1; rest of Detroit 0. Having this cushion gave Ford the maneuverability to avoid the government bailout. That said, $23 billion is no small amount of debt to have on the financials.

Last year (That makes it 2012!) Ford wiped the last of the pre-recession loan and was rewarded by receiving investment grade once again. This is where some of the misconceptions begin. People hear the large 2006 loan is paid off, yet still see around $90 billion in total debt. Let's take a quick look at the ratios of how that compares, and explain why it doesn't matter, and that Ford's high debt level is actually good for investors."

Which they go on to clarify, that like GE, Ford has a Product group and a Financial group, where the largest portion of the debt is in the Financial group, Like GE!

During the GM/Chrysler bailout, Ford asked for a 9-billion line of credit, which it did not use, and received 5 billion loan from the energy department for retooling and pledge to build more efficient cars.

If you need facts about financials, you should read financials and not a one-way-or-other leaning rag..

[jlmccuan]

Aluminum panels are not new for production cars and trucks. For those of you who don't know better, GM, Ford and Chrysler have been using aluminum hood and roof and other panels on selected models for at least 15 years. The sky didn't fall then and it won't be an issue for Ford. As Bob mentioned, Ford has been supplying entire bed assemblies in aluminum for a while, too. Do you really think they would change a major item without some real world data to support it? If your body man can't work on aluminum, find a better body man.