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The end of the Detroit-built Packards

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  • #31
    Gary L: I would be interested in you listing your reference material you used in getting your production numbers for the model years of the Lark. My inquiring mind would like to know.

    John S.
    Last edited by Packard53; 07-01-2019, 04:01 PM.

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    • #32
      75,377 Larks in the '63 model year per Fred Fox. Add in trucks, Hawks, and Avantis and you probably get Gary's number.
      Bill Pressler
      Kent, OH
      (formerly Greenville, PA)
      Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
      Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
      1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
      1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
      All are in Australia now

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Bill Pressler View Post
        75,377 Larks in the '63 model year per Fred Fox. Add in trucks, Hawks, and Avantis and you probably get Gary's number.
        Gary knows his stuff about Studebakers. When I make an error about Studebaker in any of my blog posts, I can count on him to spot it. I always welcome his input.

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        • #34
          I tend to not trust the generic old car books out there, as I repeatedly have noted errors of fact in them. For me, for Studebaker numbers and authenticity, Fred Fox is the man!
          Bill Pressler
          Kent, OH
          (formerly Greenville, PA)
          Currently owned: 1966 Cruiser, Timberline Turquoise, 26K miles
          Formerly owned: 1963 Lark Daytona Skytop R1, Ermine White
          1964 Daytona Hardtop, Strato Blue
          1966 Daytona Sports Sedan, Niagara Blue Mist
          All are in Australia now

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Bill Pressler View Post
            I tend to not trust the generic old car books out there, as I repeatedly have noted errors of fact in them. For me, for Studebaker numbers and authenticity, Fred Fox is the man!
            Indeed! Fred Fox has a well-deserved sterling reputation for having accurate knowledge of all things Studebaker! We nominate him for being a National Treasure!

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            • #36
              I will state this you can list production numbers by the model year or the calendar years or any way you want. The truth of the matter is that Studebaker couldn't produce a enough cars between 1959 and 1963 to stay in business. Nance biggest mistake was merging with Studebaker. When the merger was taking place Studebaker told Packard that their South Bend break even point was 120,000 a year. Turn out that Packard found out after the merger took place that South Bend break even point was actually 300,000 units a year..

              Bill & Gary what was Studebaker truck production numbers for the years 1954 through 1964. Lets compare the numbers I have to what both of you have.

              John S.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Bill Pressler View Post
                75,377 Larks in the '63 model year per Fred Fox. Add in trucks, Hawks, and Avantis and you probably get Gary's number.
                My number of 83,846 includes 3834 Avantis and 4634 Hawks (no trucks). This would be 75,378 Lark types. The one difference from Fred's number may be the one chassis that I include.
                Gary L.
                Wappinger, NY

                SDC member since 1968
                Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Packard53 View Post
                  I will state this you can list production numbers by the model year or the calendar years or any way you want. The truth of the matter is that Studebaker couldn't produce a enough cars between 1959 and 1963 to stay in business. Nance biggest mistake was merging with Studebaker. When the merger was taking place Studebaker told Packard that their South Bend break even point was 120,000 a year. Turn out that Packard found out after the merger took place that South Bend break even point was actually 300,000 units a year..

                  Bill & Gary what was Studebaker truck production numbers for the years 1954 through 1964. Lets compare the numbers I have to what both of you have.

                  John S.
                  Are you referring to calendar year or model year? Model years run from a low of 7641 to a high of 67,981. This is for 1946 - 1962. I do not have before or after handy. The total for these years ('46-'62) is about 514K. I am not a real "typist" so I do not desire to input all of the individual years and numbers.
                  Gary L.
                  Wappinger, NY

                  SDC member since 1968
                  Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Packard5687 View Post
                    Indeed! Fred Fox has a well-deserved sterling reputation for having accurate knowledge of all things Studebaker! We nominate him for being a National Treasure!
                    Yes, Fred is excellent for his information that he researches. Too bad we can't get him to participate in the SDC Forum.
                    I assume that you know that Fred resides in your "neck of the woods".
                    Gary L.
                    Wappinger, NY

                    SDC member since 1968
                    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Here are the 1959 calendar year figures: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...w-Did-Stude-Do

                      Craig

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Bill Pressler View Post
                        This reminds me that a late Caribbean convertible (serial 5699-1258) was sold new by my small hometown dealer, Carl E. Filer Co., Greenville, PA.
                        This was eighteen cars from the last Packard convertible. Vivid color photo of the car on delivery day (July 13, 1956 IIRC) in front of the showroom--which survives--below:

                        http://theoldmotor.com/?p=171030

                        The car survives in beautiful restored condition in Denmark, now sitting on Packard wire wheels.

                        The man in the photo is misidentified by the site. It's Carl E. Filer, Sr. (1895-1963). His son, known as Ed, was a good friend of mine and passed in 2018 at age 89. Next Saturday (July 6), the huge Heritage Days Super Cruise car show in Greenville, PA will have an "Ed Filer Memorial Best Of Show" trophy to be awarded by Ed's son Ted (real name, Carl E. Filer III).
                        Indeed a beautiful automobile. Thanks for the link to remind us of it.
                        Joe Roberts
                        '61 R1 Champ
                        '65 Cruiser
                        Eastern North Carolina Chapter

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I have the copies of Studebaker's factory production records that Asa Hall made during visits to South Bend in the late 1960s. They were prepared for financial reasons, and therefore, report on a calendar year basis. They do, however, break things down by model number and the model-year break is usually noted. They also separately list those build as CKD for export, and (sometimes) those intended for export to Mexico. There are no grand totals, so coming up with a "total total" can be a chore. I did calculate the real totals for trucks that I used in the truck history on the SDC main page, but there were some unexplained discrepancies. In at least one case, it appears that the sub-totals for trucks one year double-counted some of the exports. In others, the reporting format changed, making it difficult to compare apples to apples. At this late date, it's hard to hypothesize on why management changed the reporting systems.

                          The summaries after 1961 are in a completely different format and I have not spent much time trying to identify where the potential minefields may be. I THINK there are some pages missing after 1963. I was able to come up with truck subtotals for the truck history and that was all I needed. I know that Asa Hall and Fred Fox collaborated on a number of books, so I'm pretty sure that Fred has copies of these, too -- and so may Dick Quinn.

                          One other caution. "Produced" can have several definitions. The production dept might have reported producing vehicles that were never intended for sale. I know there were a few trucks that were prototypes or mules that were used and repeatedly modified for sales purposes. Whether they had serial number plates or not, I don't know. Presumably the same thing might have happened with cars as well.
                          Skip Lackie

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Skip Lackie View Post
                            I have the copies of Studebaker's factory production records that Asa Hall made during visits to South Bend in the late 1960s. They were prepared for financial reasons, and therefore, report on a calendar year basis. They do, however, break things down by model number and the model-year break is usually noted.
                            Do those records for trucks include a breakdown for multiple-order production runs for fleet sales, where perhaps maybe 5 or more pickups were identical, including color; the most famous being the 65 4E7D trucks for the Navy? There were also multiple orders from Caltrans, and the National Parks Service. It would be interesting to know how many were for fleet orders.

                            Craig

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                            • #44
                              Craig-
                              The answer to your question is "no". One can occasionally infer such orders by anomalous one-year increases, but their origin is usually not noted. The exception is the note in the 1958 truck production data sheets, which show a minus 48 entry with the note “Argentina cancellation”.
                              Skip Lackie

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Skip Lackie View Post
                                The exception is the note in the 1958 truck production data sheets, which show a minus 48 entry with the note “Argentina cancellation”.
                                Thanks, Skip.

                                I wonder if that meant 48 less Packard trucks for 1958!!

                                Craig

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