Coupe, Hardtop, Sedan... I'm Confused

[Commander Eddie]

Okay, evidently a coupe can have a "B" pillar, or not. It can have framed windows, or not. The same seems to be true for hardtops as well. And Sedans, they too seem to defy definition.
Is there a clear definition of these terms? Or does it depend on whatever the manufacturer decided to call it?

[Skip Lackie]

Will give you a few thoughts, but am sure I will be corrected. One needs to remember that many car body terms began in the carriage era, and continued to evolve after that. A hardtop is really a misnomer, but started out being called a hardtop convertible, which also wasn't correct. The name was applied circa 1949 to GM 2-door (later 4-door) coupes that did not have a B pillar, and were thus more sporty-looking. If the roof had creases in it a la a real convertible's bows, it looked like a convertible. The term has gone out of currency.

Two-door and 4-door sedans have a B pillar and a full back seat. Coupes originally had a shorter roof, leaving only enough room for jump seats or other vestigial seats in the back. C-body Hawks are called coupes because they have sporty styling and cramped seating in the back. The distinction between a 2-door coupe and a 2-door hardtop can get a bit muddy. K-body Hawks are true hardtops.

[345 DeSoto]

A coupe will always have a B pillar with no frame around the window. A "Hard Top" will always have a "frame" around the windows, to allow sealing against the weather. Hard tops, both 2 and 4 door, are called hard tops. Both 2 and 4 doors, which don't conform to the hard top definition, are sedans...both 2 door "coupes" and 4 door sedans...

[8E45E]

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?29377-Stupid-question-hardtop-or-not

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?9534-We-ve-come-full-circle!&p=430526&viewfull=1&styleid=1

Craig

[rockne10]

A coupe will always have a B pillar with no frame around the window. A "Hard Top" will always have a "frame" around the windows, ...

Unless I've just misread or misinterpreted this...SAY WHAT?

[48skyliner]

The first production "Hardtop" in the U.S. that I know of was the 49 Buick. I have come to believe the term applies to any car that has no B pillar and which has no obstructing posts when all the windows are rolled down, door glass and quarter glass. They were called Hardtop because the only previous cars with no B pillar were the convertibles.

There are cars with no B pillar which are not hardtops in that sense, as in the Lancia Aprilia and Lancia Appia four door pillarless sedans. The Aprilia dates from 1936, the Appia in the 1950s.

https://imgur.com/a/rPR2t

https://imgur.com/a/gLzVa

https://imgur.com/WMaX7l9

[8E45E]

The first "Hardtop" in the U.S. that I know of was the 49 Buick. I have come to believe the term applies to any car that has no B pillar and which has no obstructing posts when all the windows are rolled down, door glass and quarter glass.

Chrysler was the first in 1946 with a two door hardtop, although GM made them instantly popular in 1949. https://auto.howstuffworks.com/1946-...ry-hardtop.htm

Craig

[studegary]

A coupe will always have a B pillar with no frame around the window. A "Hard Top" will always have a "frame" around the windows, to allow sealing against the weather. Hard tops, both 2 and 4 door, are called hard tops. Both 2 and 4 doors, which don't conform to the hard top definition, are sedans...both 2 door "coupes" and 4 door sedans...

Perhaps you are referring to a "frame" around the glass itself. Coupes have a full B pillar and an upper door frame. Hardtops have neither.

[345 DeSoto]

What he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[52hawk]

You forgot"hardtop convertible".

[Hallabutt]

Much already answered, but thought I would muddy the waters with my two cents. Until the late thirties the term coupe almost always referred to a car with, two doors, a single seat, limited interior cabin space, and a similarly small cabin top. They sometimes came with rumble seat, which provided outside seating, in the coupes trunk area. The definition began to be less well defined, in about 1936 or 37, when some of the bigger coupes, like Cadillac started replacing the outside rumble seat with folding jump seats, behind the front seat. Then in the late 30's things began to really become confused, when companies like Studebaker began using their own terminology like "Coupe Sedan," when referring to their two door car, but with a regular bench seat behind the front seat, but with a smaller outside cabin top then a two door sedan. This arrangement could have easily been referred to as a "Victoria," which it had been called for years, but the advertisers chose to go a different route. The terms club coupe, and business coupe came into common usage to define the single seated, small topped coupe. Fast forward into the post war era. Over the last seventy years car makers, and car owners have, somewhat whimsically, come to refer to almost any two door car as a coupe.

Open topped cars:
Roadsters or convertibles-Until about 1930, no open topped cars had roll up windows.
Convertible coupe- a roadster with roll up windows. Studebaker was big on changing terminology to suite their chosen advertising message. The confusing "four
Seasons Roadster was nothing more then a way of advertising their new convertible coupe, with roll up windows.
Convertible Sedan-A four door convertible with roll up windows.

Over the last 120 years of the automobile there is only small vestiges of uniformity in the terminology used. Much of it carried forward from the age of the horse and carriage, much of which is forgotten now. So just like the term "Hardtop Convertible" became became just "hardtop," a body style that most of the world has forgotten, you really need to know what era someone is talking about.

[Stu Chapman]

In the 40s and 50s, two door vehicles with B pillars were also referred to as two-door sedans and coaches. Don't forget that Ford actually made true hardtop convertibles around 1959, which IIRC were called Starliners.

Stu Chapman

[qsanford]

Chrysler also muddied up the waters in 1979 when they introduced their four door pillared hardtops. The doors had frameless glass but there was a "B" pillar. This was on the Chrysler New Yorker, Chrysler Newport and the Dodge St. Regis. The Plymouth Gran Fury joined the crowd in 1980.

[63t-cab]

Stu, are You talking about the retractable s ? if so they were 57,58,59.

In the 40s and 50s, two door vehicles with B pillars were also referred to as two-door sedans and coaches. Don't forget that Ford actually made true hardtop convertibles around 1959, which IIRC were called Starliners.

Stu Chapman

[rockne10]

Needless to say, over the years, automobile designers and marketers have misplaced all knowledge of what constitutes a coupé, and have pretty randomly created a litany of designations for models that can't be applied across the board.