Datsun Forum: Studebaker/Datsun connection

[BobPalma]

I was going to post this earlier in the day when Duane Miller passed it along. It seemed factual enough, but I thought it best to run it past our own Stu Chapman for Fact-Checking, since that is Stu's area of expertise in all of Studebakerdom. Stu reported that it was basically correct, but offered some remarks and corrections.

I have alerted Stu that it is going up, so don't take everything here as gospel until you have read Stu's remarks in Post #4 to this thread.

http://datsunforum.com/1571-2/

Thanks, Duane; an interesting writing. BP

[Greenstude]

CMI = Canadian Motor Industries, not "Campbell".

[rusty65]

As Arte Johnson would say, "Veddi Interestink!"

[Stu Chapman]

I was going to post this earlier in the day when Duane Miller passed it along. It seemed factual enough, but I thought it best to run it past our own Stu Chapman for Fact-Checking, since that is Stu's area of expertise in all of Studebakerdom. Stu reported that it was basically correct, but offered some remarks and corrections.

I have alerted Stu that it is going up, so don't take everything here as gospel until you have Stu's remarks in hand in a subsequent post:

http://datsunforum.com/1571-2/

Thanks, Duane; an interesting writing. BP

As Bob Palma indicated, the story is basically factual but there are some discrepancies, noted as follows:
1 - "Most Studebaker guys don't even know it". WRONG. Anyone who read my book would be totally aware. I have also talked about it in a number of speeches I have given.
2 - "Campbell Motor Industries". WRONG. The company name was Canadian Motor Industries.
3 - "Canadian politician refused to sign off". NO EVIDENCE OF THIS. Had heard a rumor about it, but Peter Munk and David Gilmour, key principals of CMI, made the decision not to proceed because Gilmour felt the deal was going to be much for them. This is not only covered in my book, but also in a biography of Peter Munk.
4 - "Picture of building is not Studebaker". In fact it's Otis Elevator. Studebaker is further down the street. Hemmings made this mistake as well. For some reason, someone has shot this picture and misrepresented it as Studebaker. Unfortunately, many in the media have not done their homework and the error has been compounded.
5 - "Rest of the story". The Richard Nixon connection is not new. He was a law partner of Randolph Guthrie, Chairman of the Board of Studebaker, and was not employed by Studebaker. This is also covered in my book. The fact has been well known to Studebaker types for many years.

Stu Chapman

[avantibngrant]

I have a hard time reading this after having a 1970 Datsun truck and a 1974 Datsun 710. They did cure me of Japanese cars. I have never owned another. Studebaker's are on the top shelf of the automotive world. Datsuns are a below under a different cabinet and a couple of stories below. I pine for different Studebakers, limited by space, time, and money. Datsuns, not so much.

[Dick Steinkamp]

I have a hard time reading this after having a 1970 Datsun truck and a 1974 Datsun 710. They did cure me of Japanese cars. I have never owned another. Studebaker's are on the top shelf of the automotive world. Datsuns are a below under a different cabinet and a couple of stories below. I pine for different Studebakers, limited by space, time, and money. Datsuns, not so much.

Our individual experiences with specific cars tend to taint our feelings about them. I know mine do.

The first new car I owned was a 71 510 wagon. Loved it.

The market likes the early Datsuns. A lowly 510 2 door sedan...

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...971-Datsun-510

$22k for a nice one. A lot of car magazines rated them better than a similar BMW 2002 for a lot less money.

How about a 71 240z?

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...71-Datsun-240Z

$50k.

Both appreciating ballistically.

By the early 70's Datsun (Nissan), Toyota, and Honda were starting to eat the lunch of the US big 3. If Studebaker had hung on AND developed a relationship with Datsun, they may still be around today.

[2moredoors]

I am somewhat happy that Studebaker did not make a deal with Datsun. I bought a new Datsun Pick Up in 1978. On a good day you could hear it rust. On a wet day you could see it rust. Datsun would not honour their warranty until I took it up with one of their execs. I have never looked at a Nissan/Datsun since.

[8E45E]

This is not only covered in my book, but also in a biography of Peter Munk.

I posted the chapter pertinent to that proposed buyout of the Automotive Division by CMI here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...3407-65-Merger

Craig

[EssexExport]

I believe a couple of months ago I came across a vintage (70s) Datsun at a car show. I declined to photograph it.

[8E45E]

I believe a couple of months ago I came across a vintage (70s) Datsun at a car show.

The Studebaker dealer here, and 135 miles south of here in Lethbridge both became Datsun/Nissan dealers after Studebaker stopped production in 1966. Both dealers still exist today.

While Studebaker was still producing cars, the Datsun 410 series was the bread-and-butter line before the 510 replaced it. I posted a couple of photos of a 411-SSS here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...e-styling-cues

It was in too nice of shape not to photograph.

Craig

[Stu Chapman]

On the subject of Datsun (Nissan), several months prior to our closing in 1966, our Marketing Vice President, R.J. Bob Orr resigned in order to pursue a law degree. Upon graduation he joined the law firm of Bull, Hauser in Vancouver BC. One of his key clients was Nissan Canada Ltd.

Late in 1966, our General Sales Manager, Tom Pryde, who had been with Studebaker since the 30s, joined Nissan Canada in a senior sales capacity. A number of former Studebaker dealers became Nissan dealers.

Funny how these things come back to one's mind because of another reference.

Stu Chapman

[StudeRich]

I think that Falcon like, little Nissan Cedric is a cute little car, they could have re-badged that as a Studebaker sparrow and sold quite a few!

The Haggerty article did not mention the "Other" Datsun connection!

That would be the Dunlap Patent Front Caliper Disc Brakes used on the 1600 and 2000 Fair Lady Roadster being the same as all Avantis and '63 to '66 Lark Types so equipped.

[r1lark]

While Studebaker was still producing cars, the Datsun 410 series was the bread-and-butter line before the 510 replaced it. I posted a couple of photos of a 411-SSS here: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...e-styling-cues It was in too nice of shape not to photograph.

Craig

We had several '67 411 SSS sedans in our extended family. They were quick little cars, handled fairly well (not as well as the 510s, however), and had disc brakes in the front. Neat little cars, and one of my Dad's favorites of the cars he sold.

With Studebaker sales dropping in 1964, my family's dealership added both Datsun and Toyota (as well as retaining Mercedes Benz). When Toyota found out they were also selling Datsuns, they threatened to cancel the franchise in late '65/early '66 unless they dropped Datsun. Since the dealership was selling many more Datsuns than Toyotas, they dropped the Toyota franchise. They did sell some '65 Studebakers, but no '66 Studebakers.

[avantibngrant]

I am somewhat happy that Studebaker did not make a deal with Datsun. I bought a new Datsun Pick Up in 1978. On a good day you could hear it rust. On a wet day you could see it rust. Datsun would not honour their warranty until I took it up with one of their execs. I have never looked at a Nissan/Datsun since.

After the Datsun 710 I bought an 85 Ford F150 pickup new. Got within a couple of mile to the gallon of the Datsun and no problems. Made in Oakville. Had residual value when I sold it. No rear brake, alternator ( I remember driving from Montreal on the 401 with a flashlight), starting, etc problems. Not to mention the springs were just about to come up into the trunk. The guy bought it said he was looking for a Japanese car for a while. I said "God Bless You" to myself. It never got more than 60 k miles on it. I had a 58 Chev pick up before the Datsuns. I should have kept it. If they have any value now, it is probably the rose coloured glasses effect. What a pair of bookends for the junk pile that Datsun car and truck were.

[studer35]

I wasn't aware of the Datsun/Stude connection until this post. Sorry Mr. Chapman but I haven't read your book yet. I have owned about 7 Datsuns; two roadsters. two pickups and three 510 sedans. They weren't perfect but all had some outstanding qualities. The 2000 roadster would run hard and handle well. With its 5 speed it would top out about 128 in fourth but didn't have the torque to go faster in overdrive. The pickups were about perfect shop trucks for my small engine shop. The 510 sedans were reasonably comfortable and almost indestructable. I sold one with 198k on the odomoter and saw it on the road months later. Sure wish I had that SRL311 roadster sistting next to my Daytona, would be a nice combination.