Automotive Blasphemy

[SScopelli]

As far as the Beech 18 with the tricycle landing gear, it made the plane into a pig by shifting the CG way forward. Sticking the turbines on it may have helped a bit. Kinda like throwing good money after bad.

Good catch.. But stretching them was like WOW! What were they thinking?

I don't think many people figured out that they are all the same airplane, but modified.

Odd that you can do this to an airplane and no one cares.

I've flown one Beech 18 that was still taildragger, but with the turbines and long nose.. 3500ft/min climb empty was quite the feeling..

THis one is the last one and Only slightly modified..

[parts2]

I guess I am one of those Heretics..and actually the Jaguar clubs has named my car that.. It was an old racer..never really on the street,,was converted to SBC in 1956. I have restored several E Types..and more than several XKs..

So..I restored it as it raced..instead of 301" I went to 350..T-10. The Jaguar guys were aghast..but..
"You know there are quite a few folks that think these old Jaguars are quite incredibly quick"

Now they like it..

Yep..My 53 Coupe is also quite modified. I drve my cars all year here in AZ..and out in places very remote..near the border. I prefer to get there quickly..and get back..


I was never nice enough to care what others think of my things..nor really care what they do with theirs..

[t walgamuth]

Your cars look very very nice!

[grobb284]

You can rationalize it away all you want, quote the constitution, get offended, take an "I don't care it is his car attitude", WHATEVER, but car enthusiasts used to understand that we are to a great extent, caretakers of history, automotive archeologists if you will. To take classic automobiles, often numbers matching, often low production,and change them radically, put in small blocks, big blocks, Vega engines, 2.2 4 Bangers & K-Car & Camaro Subframes , Mustang II Suspensions, LS motors, crate-motors, chop, channel, replace the chassis with a coil-over tubular one, resto-mod them, permanently altering original low production original cars is a blasphemy in my opinion. Look at 1953 C-K bodies for example, try to find a stock one, it is extremely difficult. I cringe every time a 53-54 CK Champion comes on Ebay, because I know what will happen to that car when the hot rodders get it. These cars are rolling sculpture, yet try to find a pure one. It used to be rodders did indeed save cars that restorers passed by, but after awhile they realized, why try to rebuild a rusty hulk that has been sitting in a field for 30 years, when you can buy a clean original or restored one at a reasonable price, and chop up that one. Plus, in my 50 years of being an enthusiast, I have seen countless cars that people tore apart, welded in sub-frames, gutted, chopped, or whatever, and then realized they were in over their heads, put it in the back yard to rust, or tried to sell it, and nobody wanted it, so it ended up in a junkyard somewhere, unredeemable. I love driving my original '55 Champion sedan, using the overdrive & the hill holder. IT'S FUN, IT IS SAFE and I don't need disc brakes, an "LS' motor and coil-over chassis to enjoy it. If I want that, I will buy a new Camaro. I have a supercharged Avanti & an R-1 with air. They are fun, they handle & stop well, plus I love the Studebaker V8. If I want a sports car with a Chevy motor, I will buy a Corvette ( I have owned 3 by the way). I am disturbed by the way the club, the hobby in general is going. It is a dirty shame. I work in the industry, and the ignorance about original cars is incredible. As cars change hands, often to inexperienced new owners, who then seek out Marque clubs to join for information & fun, when that club encourages the resto-mod rage that is going on, and all of their buddies tell them EFI, Rack & Pinion & Cruise control will make the car "dependable", and of course cool, the die is cast. These inexperienced people will listen to all the hype, start replacing major components for "convenience" and for "cruising comfort" then another original car that needs a few things repaired will be "upgraded", and altered forever. Also, the more cars that are modified with newer components, the less likely OEM Type correct parts will be reproduced, especially in orphan cars like Studes, because there will be no market. All of you who think a heavily modified fire breathing chopped big block '53 hardtop is going to encourage the next generation of kids who grew up on Hotwheels and Gas Monkey Garage, who have no knowledge of Studebakers to go out & buy an original car with a 120 HP V-8 and enjoy if for the "historical" value, think again. We are destroying the future of the Studebaker Marque with it's individualism and wonderful idiosynchrocies. We are cheapening the hobby, turning it into a big toy show.
I am not talking about simple improvements to drivability & safety, but just because it's old, doesn't make it unsafe, doesn't make it bad.
If your buddies laugh at you for driving a Studebaker, especially a Studebaker with a Studebaker engine; GET NEW BUDDIES. That's the way I see it.

That's the way I see it.

Thank you for the checklist, I forgot to install cruise control.

[alex54]

I have wondered for a long time, has anyone EVER taken a modified car of any sort, and restored it to stock? I figure, pretty much anything that has been done, can be undone. Sure, it may take mega $ if things like the frame or body has been heavily modified, but if these cars are that valuable, anything is possible.

This whole purist vs modifier is a subject that is hotly debated in almost all forums where vintage cars are discussed, but never where more modern cars are discussed. I wonder if 50 years from now, someone is going to say that I defaced my '96 s10 with a SBC, or my '82 Grand Marquis with shaved door handles and NOS. (My Marquis will be 83 years old by then and I'll be 92!)

[mbstude]

I have wondered for a long time, has anyone EVER taken a modified car of any sort, and restored it to stock? I figure, pretty much anything that has been done, can be undone. Sure, it may take mega $ if things like the frame or body has been heavily modified, but if these cars are that valuable, anything is possible.

This whole purist vs modifier is a subject that is hotly debated in almost all forums where vintage cars are discussed, but never where more modern cars are discussed. I wonder if 50 years from now, someone is going to say that I defaced my '96 s10 with a SBC, or my '82 Grand Marquis with shaved door handles and NOS. (My Marquis will be 83 years old by then and I'll be 92!)

I could have it wrong, but I think there's a guy in California restoring a 38 President sedan convertible back to stock from a failed street rod attempt. Maybe someone else knows more about it.

[JBOYLE]

It's clearly one thing to update a regular production car that is still reasonably common even after 60 years (the C/K models as an example) and another to put a SBC in a now rare and limited production (or coachbuilt) model from the 20's or 30's.
Any attemptto equate a 50s Studebaker to a Duesenberg is is wrong.

And again, it's one thing to put modern AC and reliability upgrades in the car without altering its appearance too much (though shaved door handles, silly paint and some of the other common mods are overdone stereotypes...heck they were when Barris was doing them in the late 50s)...but something that terribly alters Bourke's masterpiece should be avoided.

Can the owner's do it. Heck yes, you're an American. You have the God-given right to make a fool of yourself, any time, any place.
But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

I like Ken's SBC XK-120. If it was a racer converted in period, great.
Now if you're talking about some guy who drops a SBC into a '80s XJ sedan because he can't afford to maintain the original engine (either 6 or 12) and he want's to show it off in the mobile home park...well, not so good.

[JBOYLE]

I've never figured out why most car guys that own, or are interested in custom and modified cars, also own or are at least appreciate a well done stocker...but that many of those where only a pure stock vehicle will do have VERY strong negative feelings toward not only custom and modified cars, but also their owners.

I agree....but
I've noticed that some of the modified guys seem to do things trolling for negative reactions.
Examples I've seen: the driver of an unpainted rat rod who enjoys going to a show field and revs his un-muffled motor and sends dust over all the other cars, or wearing not exactly "family friendly " T-shirts.
I think more than a few like being seen as weekend "bad boys", and really revel in ticking off the "old f@rts".
In other words, it goes both ways. One group is not just the church-going repressive town elders from "Footloose" and the other side gruff looking bikers with hearts of gold.
Reality is a bit more complicated than that.

Still, we should try to "coexist" to expand and protect the hobby.

[Skip Lackie]

I agree....but
I've noticed that some of the modified guys seem to do things trolling for negative reactions.
Examples I've seen: the driver of an unpainted rat rod who enjoys going to a show field and revs his un-muffled motor and sends dust over all the other cars, or wearing not exactly "family friendly " T-shirts.
I think more than a few like being seen as weekend "bad boys", and really revel in ticking off the "old f@rts".
In other words, it goes both ways. One group is not just the church-going repressive town elders from "Footloose" and the other side gruff looking bikers with hearts of gold.
Reality is a bit more complicated than that.

Still, we should try to "coexist" to expand and protect the hobby.

Agree with both of your posts above. It's one thing to modify a vehicle to update it, make it go faster, or achieve some personal vision of perfection. It really is another to create a vehicle (or wear offensive T-shirts, or behave badly, or . . . . ) for no other purpose but to attract attention and/or create hate and discontent -- and then act surprised and hurt when you get the expected reaction. We all understand that that is why teenagers dye their hair pink, but 30-year-olds should know better.

[t walgamuth]

Is it ok for a 66 year old to dye his hair pink?

[Bob Andrews]

It's one thing to modify a vehicle to update it, make it go faster, or achieve some personal vision of perfection. It really is another to create a vehicle for no other purpose but to attract attention and/or create hate and discontent -- and then act surprised and hurt when you get the expected reaction.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Probably not what Skip was thinking of, but I've seen mentioned several times on this forum the desire of a member to put a Studebaker motor in a Chevy just to piss off the Chevy guys. Just to make them as angry as they get when someone puts a Chevy motor in a Studebaker. I don't think anyone has actually done it, however, and I don't think it would produce the desired result if it was done.

[SASCO KID]

1964 Chevrolet Impala 2-Door Hardtop production figures: 561,458. 1964 Studebaker Hawk 2-Door Hardtop production figures: less than 1,800 (Hagerty Insurance figure).
Now, which marque suffers a greater loss percentage-wise, and actual available original cars from a car being heavily modified; Studebaker or Chevrolet? Which car will be less likely to be available in original condition to a future generation who might actually care about American history; The Studebaker or the Chevrolet?

[Dick Steinkamp]

1964 Chevrolet Impala 2-Door Hardtop production figures: 561,458. 1964 Studebaker Hawk 2-Door Hardtop production figures: less than 1,800 (Hagerty Insurance figure).
Now, which marque suffers a greater loss percentage-wise, and actual available original cars from a car being heavily modified; Studebaker or Chevrolet? Which car will be less likely to be available in original condition to a future generation who might actually care about American history; The Studebaker or the Chevrolet?

A valid point. But those that feel strongly about having 64 Hawks available in original condition for future generations have limited options...

1. Get laws past that would prevent anyone from modifying a 64 Hawk. Probably not going to happen.
2. Chastise anyone that might consider modifying a 64 Hawk hoping that brow beating them will get them to change their mind. Get mad at them if all else fails. Also unlikely to produce the desired results.
3. Buy original 64 Hawks and squirrel them away in a climate controlled facility. This one works.

[SASCO KID]

1963 Chevrolet Impala 2-Door Hardtop production figures: 552.495; 1963 Studebaker Gran Turismo Hawk 2-Door Hardtop production: 4,009 (domestic, according to conceptcarz.com).