How Long do Stamping Dies Last?

[TWChamp]

I was wondering how many fenders can be stamped out before the dies need to be repaired or replaced? Would the die have a smaller replaceable part for the high wear area?

I'm also wondering how many different dies it takes to stamp out a fender, say for a 1953 Studebaker? Thanks

[64V-K7]

According to an Otis Romine Interview in 2010 it took at least 2 'draws' to create the compound curves on the (C/K) fender and then a couple more hits on other machines to make the headlight area and door seam fold. The Budd engineer who insisted the initial curves could be made in one operation, quit on the spot when the metal tore from overstretching while trying his method.
The article also said that Studebaker kept the torn fenders and welded/brazed them up so they could be used on production vehicles. I wonder if any of these historic pieces are out there...

[BeeJay]

Worked as a diemaker @ Cadillac fr 37 years, for all intents and purposes, dies do not wear out beyond repair. To make a Caddy fender took a line of of 8 to 10 dies doing different operations. We were required at the time i worked to supply service parts for a period of 10 years. Dies were stored (Usually in an outside shed) until the 10 years were up, and then scrapped. Don't know what gov't requirements are now.

ob

[swvalcon]

Would it have been nice if someone had gotten a hold of Studebaker's die's and kept them.

[clonelark]

When i worked at McDonnell Douglas we had thousands of dies for just about any Plane Mc Donnell made. We even still repaired DC-3's, helped American restore their D-3. Did a lot of F-4 work of the planes used in Veitnam. Too bad the Studebaker Co. didn't keep that stuff.

[garyash]

It's not just having the dies, the presses that the dies were designed for are needed, as well. Both Studebaker and Budd had huge stamping presses for this kind of work.

http://opacity.us/site63_studebaker_stamping_plant.htm

The end of the Budd plant in Detroit: https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/...-rigging-crew/

I wonder if the C-K fenders could be made in multiple pieces, then spot-welded together, and the seams filled. Even so, there would be several expensive dies. The idea should be discussed with the guys that are making the new steel reproduction rear fenders. See www.thepartsplaceinc.com and search for part numbers BP80828V and BP80829V for left and right side rear quarters at $400 each. They also have them on Ebay. Has anyone tried these?

If you can live with fiberglass, Class Glass Performance has enough to build an entire car. See http://www.classglassperformance.com...tudebaker.html

[Warren Webb]

I read once that Toyota designed the Lexus so that its panels required 3 die strikes whereas it took as many as 8 on a Mercedes. This was only one of the reasons why they were able to undercut the price so much & make their presents known early on.

[StudeRich]

Yeah but, there is only one problem with that, a Lexus is a Toyota no matter what they call it, and a Mercedes IS the real deal!

[rkapteyn]

Sometimes dies break like the trunk lid die for the 1964 -66 Lark type cars built in Hamilton and South Bend until production was shifted to Hamilton
The cost to repair or replace this die was reported to be so high that management decided to end production.
Now you know why these trunk lids are hard to find.
Robert Kapteyn

[Xcalibur]

"...and a Mercedes IS the real deal."

[kurtruk]

Wish Studebaker had saved the dies?

A few years back a photo was in T/W showing the die storage area. Don't know if Quinn or Fox provided the photo. The dies are humongus! Looking at the sheer size and number in the photo helps one to realize why they all can't be saved. Remember: whatever number of stamps it takes to make a fender, double that for lefts and rights!

[48skyliner]

I have just finished several months work restoring the body of my 48 Champion, and this is the first time I have done significant bodywork on such an old car. I was surprised how many areas were wrinkled and distorted on the lower body, particularly the fenders where they wrapped under the car. Of course these areas were not very noticeable unless you had the car up on a lift. I concluded there were several reasons for this. There was a tremendous pent up demand for new cars in 1946 when these dies were made, so presumably they were made in a big rush, with little emphasis on perfection. This was a cheap car, not a Cadillac. The body shape had some very complex and deep curves, that would never be done in metal on a new car today - they use molded plastic for the more complex shapes. Even if you had the dies and the presses today, it would not be economically feasible to make these parts.

As for the Toyota vs Mercedes, we have never had a Mercedes in our family, but I have friends that have owned a few European cars and my impression is that any car made in Germany or Sweden will have outrageously high parts and maintenance costs. My son's 92 Lexus coupe has had the usual maintenance done, and it is running fine with 280,000 miles on the engine. Of course there are plenty of similar stories from Mercedes owners, probably not many from Audi owners.

[Warren Webb]

The more strikes required for a panel decreases the chance of keeping tolerances tight, more room for error. With Studebaker towards the end imagine they had to have dies for the C cab truck, Champ, Lark & Hawks. Each one had different doors, fenders, cowl sections, ect adding more & more cost to each unit. Today take for instance a Chevy Malibu. It comes in only a 4 door unlike the cars of the past where one model had a 2 dr, 4 dr, 2 dr hardtop, wagon & possibly a convertible. Some parts were shared but think of the many parts that were unique to that model & how much more complex it made just producing the sheet metal parts. No wonder cars look so much alike today!

[GinettaG12P]

Those stampings die hard.

[Bordeaux Daytona]

Sometimes dies break like the trunk lid die for the 1964 -66 Lark type cars built in Hamilton and South Bend until production was shifted to Hamilton
The cost to repair or replace this die was reported to be so high that management decided to end production.
Now you know why these trunk lids are hard to find.
Robert Kapteyn

I wonder if they could have made the trunk lid out of fiberglass after that happened? It would have been cheaper. It probably would have taken a while to get someone to make up a mold.