VIN question for 1964 Champ

[LarryK]

This week we pulled a listing off eBay due to a conflict on the model year. The firewall plate says 8E7, the engine number is V535166, and the VIN plate has E721815 and model 8E7-112. The VIN number matches the title which also says 1964 and from everything that I can find with these numbers it is either a '63 or '64 Champ. The questions which surfaced after the car was listed on eBay had to do with the fact that this car has floor pedals, not swing pedals. I am told that the earlier Champs had floor pedals but '63 and '64 Champs had swing pedals. also, this engine has the oil filter on top of the engine, which I understand was not on the '63 and '64 models.
The VIN plate is rivited onto the body in the correct place, so I do not think anything was tampered with. Does anyone know how all this information makes sense?

We would like to re-list the truck for sale but would like to be able to explain the conflict in the vehicle equipment.

[2R5]

Hi , I'm one of the people who questioned your truck. Your VIN # fits into the '64 model year ....starting # for 64 1/2 ton V8 was E7-21,251. Not sure what that motors out of but it does not fit a truck serial number , beginning 63-64 engine numbers was 7E-2901 for a 289 and a 259 would of started 3E-18,901
It could be possible that a 64 cab was placed on an early Champ frame with the through the floor pedals. Is there any sign of swing pedal supports up under the dash that would give you an idea that the truck was rebodied?
Hope this has helped in some way.

[StudeRich]

OR, holes roughly cut in the floor for the Pedals under the Mat or Carpet.

I think it is a '64 Cab and Box but the Frame is questionable ('60-'62), but cannot be proven wrong because there is no secret 2nd. Serial Number on the Frame like Cars.

V535166 is a 1962 Lark 259 V8 Engine, just explain that it's a replacement Engine, no problem.

That is a very nice looking truck with a few mods.

Since the Title does match, don't worry about it.

You can see the Master Cylinder Block off plate here:


Here is the post about it: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...le-in-Maryland

[LarryK]

I really appreciate your feedback on this. Your ideas make sense and it makes us more confident in re-listing the truck with as much correct information as possible. Since I am not the owner of the truck I do not have any knowledge of it's history, but I believe my buddy bought it in Delaware. Perhaps a previous owner, or someone familiar with the vehicle can confirm our theory. If anyone is interested in the truck they could get in touch with the owner through me. If anyone else has anything to add I would appreciate it.

[merv]

the vin plate should be spot welded not rivited if rivited it would be a sign of something not being right

[2R5]

the vin plate should be spot welded not rivited if rivited it would be a sign of something not being right

Merv is correct about the plate should be welded on , so it is most likely the truck for some reason ( probably rust or a crash) has been rebodied. I know that above the rear window there aren't the 3 indentions so it wasn't a 60 cab so it would have to be a 61 or 62 cab.

[stude1964]

Aside from the M/C block off I'd look at the steering box. The boxes were different for '63/'64. I say this because it looks like the firewall also has a plate covering where the box should be on a later model. Does the body still have the body mounts from the car near the top of the frame or were they cut off? We used a rot-free '62 T Cab to re-body our '64 T Cab. We needed to remove the driver's side firewall section from the old cab to accommodate the M/C as well as the swing pedals onto the '62 cab. Good luck! Rob in PA.

[studegary]

I am thinking that it is an earlier pickup with a car engine and a Serial Number plate transposed from another truck ('64).
The non-factory (for this pickup) Serial Number plate would be a deal breaker for me, no matter what year you call the pickup.

[StudeRich]

I am thinking that it is an earlier pickup with a car engine and a Serial Number plate transposed from another truck ('64).
The non-factory (for this pickup) Serial Number plate would be a deal breaker for me, no matter what year you call the pickup.

Did we determine that this Truck's Vin. Plate is screwed on? I saw no Pics of it and if there was mention of it I missed it.

I was under the assumption that the obviously '64 Cab, and factory welded Serial number plate were possibly put on a '60-'62 Frame or the Pedal supports were all welded onto a '64 Frame.
Making it a re-framed Truck, like when one is damaged from an undercarriage damage.

If that were true, it even could have been rear-ended, the Box repaired or replaced and the Frame Replaced. We already know what happened with the Engine, it was replaced with a '62 Lark 259, no problem.

BOTTOM LINE: I think a lot could be figured out, if one could see the steering gear and Linkage, SINCE ALMOST EVERY YEAR WAS DIFFERENT.

[63t-cab]

Rob, I didn't realise Your champ had gone through all of that work.it is such a nice clean truck just the same

Aside from the M/C block off I'd look at the steering box. The boxes were different for '63/'64. I say this because it looks like the firewall also has a plate covering where the box should be on a later model. Does the body still have the body mounts from the car near the top of the frame or were they cut off? We used a rot-free '62 T Cab to re-body our '64 T Cab. We needed to remove the driver's side firewall section from the old cab to accommodate the M/C as well as the swing pedals onto the '62 cab. Good luck! Rob in PA.

[63t-cab]

Looks like Larry determined the serial plate is rivited on,in the origional post.

Did we determine that this Truck's Vin. Plate is screwed on? I saw no Pics of it and if there was mention of it I missed it.

I was under the assumption that the obviously '64 Cab, and factory welded Serial number plate were possibly put on a '60-'62 Frame or the Pedal supports were all welded onto a '64 Frame.
Making it a re-framed Truck, like when one is damaged from an undercarriage damage.

If that were true, it even could have been rear-ended, the Box repaired or replaced and the Frame Replaced. We already know what happened with the Engine, it was replaced with a '62 Lark 259, no problem.

BOTTOM LINE: I think a lot could be figured out, if one could see the steering gear and Linkage, SINCE ALMOST EVERY YEAR WAS DIFFERENT.

[LarryK]

I have not had a chance to get over to the owners house to verify some of the things that have been mentioned. I will take a few pictures of the steering and linkage as well as the serial number plate. Is it likely that someone had removed the serial number plate in order to paint the car, for instance, and replaced it with rivets after painting?

I would rather not re-list the truck on eBay until we resolve, as best as possible, the origins of all the pieces. Thanks again for everyone's comments.

[Warren Webb]

8E Champs were made with the steering gearbox pitman arm on the outside of the frame rail that went "north/south" vs. the earlier version where the pitman arm came off the bottom & went "east/west".