Yes, it IS [sorta...kinda] Studebaker-specific

[BobPalma]

OK, Moderators are free to move this if they want, but this is becoming so important in the collector-car world that I wanted as many people to see it as possible, and many folks don't read Stove-Huggers:

Losses and Lessons: Title trouble makes Chevelle loss tougher to take

Here's why this is becoming more important as time passes:

1. As many of us age and ultimately take leave of the planet, we will be leaving an inordinate number of collector vehicles behind. Assuming that the people who bury us are sad to see us go (BIG assumption, I know), the last thing we'd want to do would be to increase the difficulty of their settling our/your estate.

2. Again as time goes on, it will become increasingly difficult to title a vehicle with shaky or no paper work. The best time to get your ducks in a row is when you are alive!

3. The opportunity for nefarious behavior by people of ill will or bad intentions after you are gone is greatly reduced if all titles are in order. How about if you have a nice car sitting around but "never got around" to titling it in your name and you pass away? The person from whom you bought it is in an excellent position to come take the car back, even though it would be grossly immoral to do so, if you never turned in the title (or other suitable paperwork) and got a fresh title in your name before you passed away.

Don't Laugh; I was involved in settling a dispute of this very nature several years ago, when the person from whom the deceased had bought a collectable STUDEBAKER decided he'd just keep it because the purchaser had yet to pick it up, even though it was all paid for in good money.

Please, everyone; I know it's a PITA, but get your vehicles titled in your name. It's darn near as important as having a good battery hold-down. BP

[warrlaw1]

Jeez, Bob. I could use some help at the office for the summer. Great advice. I do a lot of estate work and the devil is in the details. People make lists, they put labels on things...I often say if you want someone to have something why not give it to them while you're alive so you can watch them enjoy it? Dealing with affidavits and stat decs after the fact is a lot of unecessary grief. Cheers.

[rockinhawk]

Jeez, Bob. I could use some help at the office for the summer. Great advice. I do a lot of estate work and the devil is in the details. People make lists, they put labels on things...I often say if you want someone to have something why not give it to them while you're alive so you can watch them enjoy it? Dealing with affidavits and stat decs after the fact is a lot of unecessary grief. Cheers.

Sometimes you can give someone somthing while you are still alive,then you see what they do with it and it makes you want to cry!

[53k]

Sometimes you can give someone somthing while you are still alive,then you see what they do with it and it makes you want to cry!

The voice of experience?

[jimmijim8]

Even though I have a title from Colorado for my 55 in the former owners name and signed over to me as buyer, Alabama DMV will not take in on trade for an Alabama title for any car 1975 or older. What is a person to do in this case. They will issue a license plate on a bill of sale from anywhere if the numbers on a car match the numbers on a bill of sale. cheers jimmijim

[rockinhawk]

Even though I have a title from Colorado for my 55 in the former owners name and signed over to me as buyer, Alabama DMV will not take in on trade for an Alabama title for any car 1975 or older. What is a person to do in this case. They will issue a license plate on a bill of sale from anywhere if the numbers on a car match the numbers on a bill of sale. cheers jimmijim

move to Florida for a little while. Have it put in your name on a Fla title,then move back home. Better yet, buy a little place on the Gulf so you can invite your friends from Georgia down for a weekend!

[Blue 15G]

No problem here in Pennsylvania, you have to have one. Titles are still issued for every car, no matter how old. No title = no legal ownership, no way to get it registered, etc. The "non-title" state situation amazes me.

Dave Bonn
'54 Champion Starliner

[studoc]

Surprisingly, this is the ONE SINGLE area that New York state has an advantage. Only 1972 and newer vehicles have titles. You can't get a titled vehicle registered without the title. However, registering a vehicle older than 1972 without paperwork is not much of a problem. Fill out a couple extra papers and receive a non-transferable registration. A couple months later you receive a transferable registration, once the state decides you haven't stolen the vehicle.
I have done this three times so far, and will have to do it once more for my 53 2R16A.
So anybody that wants to give me your Studebakers with lost titles, feel free to drop them off at my house.

[Roscomacaw]

I have worried about how my wife will deal with my stuff should I "check out" without attending to details. I keep telling myself I should spell out who gets what in my aftermath - although "family heirloom" items are pretty much a no-brainer. Outside of my Transtar and Lark ragtop, there isn't any "high dollar" vehicles to be concerned with - and those two alreadey HAVE good titles with either or names on them which would make it easy for her to liquidate. The rest of the "stuff" - I've told her to offer the Stude communtiy one shot at it. After that, it's the local scrap man. I'll be beyond caring.

[Milaca]

Speaking of "not getting around" to transferring a title, I bought my first car (a rusty 1963 Studebaker Daytona convertible) back in the spring of 1988 and it came with a good Minnesota title that the owner signed off on.
Fast-forward 24 years when I bought a 2-door hardtop Daytona body donor for that convertible, when it occurred to me that I had never transferred the title card of the convertible in to my name! What a shame it would be to spend time & money on repairing a car that isnt in my name.

Summer and autumn went by, winter came and I found myself spending more time in the house so I dug through my old files one day and found the title card. I brought the title into the local DMV (not knowing what problems I may or may not encounter) and within a few minutes, I had it transferred into my name! One cold day in January of 2013, a new title card arrived in my mailbox for a 1963 Studebaker Lark Daytona convertible along with new license plates, nearly 25 years after having purchased the car!
Now all I have to do is restore the car and affix the new plates to it.

By the way, does anyone know of a fella by the name of Andrew Kent? The car was transferred into his name back in 1975 and I bought the car from him in May of 1988. If I remember correctly, he also had a 1963 Cruiser in his yard and he lived near Duluth, MN.

[oldsalt]

There is one GOOD outcome of siblings and such fighting about cars and other collectables that belonged to a deceased parent; It makes for some fine auctions!

To avoid that [as much as possible] I announced to my children that they would have to take possession of various things and put the titles in there names now. That was 10 years ago. Also at that time my real estate was divided up and I quit-claimed everything. Basically it was "If you want it you are going to have to pay for tags and or property tax! By agreement I live in a house given to my youngest son [also known as My Last Mistake] and I cannot be displaced. Sure, I have some cars and other toys that are still 'mine' but not enough to fight about [excessively]. As 5 years have passed the government, when I die, cannot say that the various properties and other items are part of an inheritance.

It is surprising to me how little interest anyone has in buttering me up. It's pretty much all a done deal.

[BobPalma]

There is one GOOD outcome of siblings and such fighting about cars and other collectables that belonged to a deceased parent; It makes for some fine auctions!

To avoid that [as much as possible] I announced to my children that they would have to take possession of various things and put the titles in there names now. That was 10 years ago. Also at that time my real estate was divided up and I quit-claimed everything. Basically it was "If you want it you are going to have to pay for tags and or property tax! By agreement I live in a house given to my youngest son [also known as My Last Mistake] and I cannot be displaced. Sure, I have some cars and other toys that are still 'mine' but not enough to fight about [excessively]. As 5 years have passed the government, when I die, cannot say that the various properties and other items are part of an inheritance.

It is surprising to me how little interest anyone has in buttering me up. It's pretty much all a done deal.

That's a good report, Lonny; amusing. Thanks. BP

[wittsend]

This can go the other way too. When you sell a car in California you have to fill out a "Release of Liability" form. What is of great concern is the wording at the end of the California DMV statement:
Reporting the sale or transfer of a vehicle or vessel to the department does not constitute a transfer of ownership. The record is not permanently transferred out of your name until the department receives a completed application for transfer of ownership and payment of appropriate fees from the new owner.

So, you sell a car, you fill out a release of liability form (which seems of no effect) and immediately send it in, or can be done on-line. The purchaser delays the transfer (The DMV legally allows 5 days), becomes involved in an accident a few days later - and who is liable for the damage done??? It seems by the wording you the seller because the purchaser never transferred the ownership. And you the seller probably cancelled the insurance on the car you (thought) you no longer own.

The purchaser, not wanting to be liable, claims they never bought the car from you. And what proof do you have as the seller he bought it? If cash probably nothing. If a check the money was given you for what? Probably whatever the purchaser wants to say (other than the car in question).

I now delay cancelling any sold cars insurance for at least a week. And from now on any car I sell I will insist that the purchaser go to the DMV (which thankfully is less than a mile away) and transfer ownership immediately.

Tom

[warrlaw1]

Always better to be safe than sorry. Good idea regarding the insurance for the hold-over period. Always create a paper trail, especially with cash. I'm a big Judge Judy fan. She was a family court judge for 30 years and knows her stuff. If the purchaser has care and control of the car they will eventually be held responsible, but if they have nothing, you or your insurerer could be next in line, liability wise.

[studegary]

Surprisingly, this is the ONE SINGLE area that New York state has an advantage. Only 1972 and newer vehicles have titles. You can't get a titled vehicle registered without the title. However, registering a vehicle older than 1972 without paperwork is not much of a problem. Fill out a couple extra papers and receive a non-transferable registration. A couple months later you receive a transferable registration, once the state decides you haven't stolen the vehicle.
I have done this three times so far, and will have to do it once more for my 53 2R16A.
So anybody that wants to give me your Studebakers with lost titles, feel free to drop them off at my house.

Some correction and comment on this.
In NYS, 1972 and older vehicles do not receive a title and 1973 and newer vehicles receive a title.
For title vehicles, I can pay the $50 plus sales tax on the vehicle and receive a title.
For non-title vehicles, what you describe will work if you have a vehicle that is road worthy/legal and you want to pay for insurance/registration/inspection of the vehicle. I do not believe the system that you mention will work for a vehicle that you do not want to pay to put on the road/register or for a non-operable vehicle. When you apply for registration, you swear that the vehicle meets all vehicle codes.