South Bend Avanti Body Production

[Welcome]

>>>It's seems to me after reading this book and a few other Avanti books that Santa left me for Christmas, that no matter what Studebaker did they were destined for failure due to bad management.

I am very glad the Avanti was designed & built and could not agree with you more on your concluding thought!!!

[8E45E]

I've never seen anything certain about the "missing five serial #'s". I don't think there are build sheets for them. I wonder if they were set aside for something specific, or just skipped to seperate the engineering cars from production cars. I have an article which refers to "at least five, and perhaps as many as ten" engineering cars assigned regular serial #'s and sold to the public.

Could this be one of them:

(This was sent to me several years ago, so I don't know who to credit for this.)

Craig

[Gunslinger]

The Avanti is a great car. But it's incredible how Studebaker could still fail with a car like this. Granted they did have union problems which may have made the costs more plus a strike didn't help with the introduction but I would still be curious the cost of having MFG building and shipping the bodies compared to Studebakers own employees putting the panels together from the beginning.

It's seems to me after reading this book and a few other Avanti books that Santa left me for Christmas, that no matter what Studebaker did they were destined for failure due to bad management.

The reason Studebaker farmed body production to MFG was for basically two reasons...their production people told them their factory would look like a flour factory if they did the body production there plus they figured by farming it out to MFG, as experienced maker of fiberglass body parts, they could avoid the problems and not worry about it.

As for poor management...there was enough of that as well as union problems, the difficulty of competing against the Big 3, an old and obsolete factory and other reasons. Considering the problems they faced and their always precarious financial position, it's a wonder they produced a product as good as they did.

[Gunslinger]

I've never seen anything certain about the "missing five serial #'s". I don't think there are build sheets for them. I wonder if they were set aside for something specific, or just skipped to seperate the engineering cars from production cars. I have an article which refers to "at least five, and perhaps as many as ten" engineering cars assigned regular serial #'s and sold to the public. So that's a posibility, too.
Mike M.

The very first engineering prototype became the Due Cento, raced at Bonneville. It was later returned to stock configuration and is now owned by an SDC member.

[plwindish]

Jim Cuan, a recent post in the Avanti Forum talked about an Avanti II RQB 3108 being titled in Illinois as a 1966 when it had a build sheet calling it an 83. As efficient as the IL Sec of State office is, I figured it was a clerical error on the SoS's part. Your recounting the history of your car makes one wonder how many cars were possibly retitled. Is that legal to update, re-issue, refit, or whatever to put a car back out as new?

[Mike]

Craig,
This build sheet is for a car assigned serial # 4130. I don't see any indication of an "EX" engineering #. It was ordered without headlights or parking lights, and sent to engineering; probably to try out the new square headlights. The five or ten "engineering cars" I was talking about started out with only "EX" serial #'s and were assigned regular #'s 5644 through 5653, so they could be sold to the public.
Here's 5653: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/18417/lot/16/ .
Mike M.

[8E45E]

Supposedly one reason Robert Morrison of MFG was so willing to work with Nate Altman in supplying Avanti bodies was that they had something like 150 bodies left sitting after Studebaker cancelled the contract and unpaid for.

Robert Morrison was the President of MFG.



Craig

[Gunslinger]

Craig,
This build sheet is for a car assigned serial # 4130. I don't see any indication of an "EX" engineering #. It was ordered without headlights or parking lights, and sent to engineering; probably to try out the new square headlights. The five or ten "engineering cars" I was talking about started out with only "EX" serial #'s and were assigned regular #'s 5644 through 5653, so they could be sold to the public.
Here's 5653: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/18417/lot/16/ .
Mike M.

R4130 is the prototype 1964 Avanti. Engineering used it to test all the intended '64 upgrades plus it had an R3 engine retrofitted (it's not one of the nine assembly line installed R3 cars). Some of the upgrades are still slightly different than production '64 changes...the square headlight frames don't fit flush...they protrude slightly as an example. R4130 was eventually purchased by Sherwood Egbert as his personal Avanti. The "pirates buckles" emblems on the inside door panels and exterior sail panels have an "SE" in them rather than the Studebaker "S".

R4130 is owned by a collector not far from me...I've seen it at several car events and have taken a number of photos of it.

[studegary]

That last Avanti with a body number, RQB1516, would be over 400 (didn't calculate the exact number) into Avanti II production.

I believe that all ten later S/Ns, 5644-5653, are accounted for as either originally being early prototypes or engineering cars.

3108 should be neither a 1966 nor a 1983. It should be a 1980.

[StudeMichael]

I took this picture when Sherwood Egbert's car ran through the Mecum Auction in Kissimmee Fl. The owner had it in a booklet of items related to Egbert's Avanti.

[QUOTE=8E45E;705370]Could this be one of them:

(This was sent to me several years ago, so I don't know who to credit for this.)

Craig[/QUOTE

[StudeMichael]

Did the new owner put the SE pirate buckles back on the car? When it was sold at Mecum it has the stock S emblems on it.

R4130 is the prototype 1964 Avanti. Engineering used it to test all the intended '64 upgrades plus it had an R3 engine retrofitted (it's not one of the nine assembly line installed R3 cars). Some of the upgrades are still slightly different than production '64 changes...the square headlight frames don't fit flush...they protrude slightly as an example. R4130 was eventually purchased by Sherwood Egbert as his personal Avanti. The "pirates buckles" emblems on the inside door panels and exterior sail panels have an "SE" in them rather than the Studebaker "S".

R4130 is owned by a collector not far from me...I've seen it at several car events and have taken a number of photos of it.

[Gunslinger]

I'm not sure when the Mecum auction was, but the car had the "SE" pirates buckles each time I saw the car...it's been two years since I last saw it. The owner owns a number of collector cars, including at least one other R3 equipped Avanti besides R4130. It's highly customized and well known to many members here. Here's some pics of it in 2010...unfortunately I don't have photos of the pirates buckles.

[Mike]

I just found http://www.studebaker-info.org/avantix5.html . There's lots of information about the engineering cars, including four build sheets.
R-5643, the last production Avanti, is listed with body # RQ3902. This means Stude was still using Ashtabula bodies at the end.
Mike M.

[bonehead007]

I watched the Mecum Auction with Egberts Avanti. It had SE on the badges. I believe it went for 75000.

Thanks again for the response on the Avanti Body.

Let me throw one more Avanti question out there. If the Avanti was supposed to be a "sports car" why didn't Loewy and the team design it as a 2seater convertible to go against the Corvette? With the super charged engine under the hood and the cost if I wanted a family sports car I wouldn't have spent $5000 when a station wagon went for a around half the price.

[Gunslinger]

Let me throw one more Avanti question out there. If the Avanti was supposed to be a "sports car" why didn't Loewy and the team design it as a 2seater convertible to go against the Corvette? With the super charged engine under the hood and the cost if I wanted a family sports car I wouldn't have spent $5000 when a station wagon went for a around half the price.

The Avanti was originally envisioned by Sherwood Egbert and designed as a sports car, but engineering, production and sales people convinced Egbert they would be wasting their money if it wasn't a four place car. Egbert finally agreed and the concept was changed to what it is.

Ultimately, it made little difference as history has shown. A two seater would have been even a more niche vehicle with a smaller potential target market. Basically...you're talking about a Studebaker produced Excalibur, though the body would have been a Loewy design rather than a Brooks Stevens design.