1964 GT Hawk in Belgium

[Dwain G.]

Hi Dwain, Actually an interesting explanation you gave on the serial of the engine nr.
Now, is it possible the 81 indicates the 81st engine built for the HAWK GT '64model, and not the 81st engine built on that day? Knowing there are only 224 hawks with 6cyl engine exported and taking the assumption they build 81engines per day, that would mean they build all engines for export in about 3days.
The other strange point is with the difference of serial given on the production order and the serial I found on the engine. Putting it together gives:
For the serial on the engine:
81SK328:
81 81st engine
S Six cylinder
K October
3 1963
28 28th day

serial given by production order:
82SM308:
82 82nd engine
S Six cylinder
M December
3 1963
08 8th day

Knowing the production order says the final assembly date is Nov,14th 1963, that would mean there is a mismatch with the engine as the production order mentioned serial is build in December.

I originally though the engine was replaced later on, but with above information I rather feel like there was some error put on the production order.
Would be nice if you, more experienced guys on this, give your feelings and remarks.

At least it's an interesting part on these exported cars.

I don't know for certain, but I suspect the prefix number(s) simply went in order without regard to what body style they would be installed in.
For the serial number on the engine in the car, I mentioned that the letter 'I' was not used in the 1964 numbering system. I should have mentioned that the letter 'L' was also excluded. (I didn't because that engine's serial number didn't go that far into the model year). So, instead of a December date on the production order engine, we now have November 8th.
Mistakes do occur on production orders, but this seems to me more like an engine swap. I have no idea what the circumstances were. Perhaps D'Itereren would have some information.

[Skip Lackie]

Just an odd thought about the mismatch of the dates, 'final assembly' listed as >>November 14, 1963<< and 'serial number' date given as >>December 8, 1963<<. I always thought that cars shipped as CKD (complete knock down kit--is that the right term?) were first ASSEMBLED (as in South Bend), then partially DIS-ASSEMBLED for shipping, and then RE-ASSEMBLED and *completed/finished off in drive-away condition* with local content--seat material, hubcaps?, paint, tires, wheels etc from the kit, depending on location. If my understanding of the process is correct, then there is no mismatch. The car would be assembled with all major welding, parts and fitments, and later on would be given a serial number corresponding to when the car was actually completed. A serial number would be issued when the parts actually became a car that could be used/sold as a car. I'm wondering is the rules governing serial numbers were why the experimental Avantis built in say 1962 were okay with the X as long as they were owned by Studebaker as test vehicles, but when they were later sold to the public they had to be re-serialized(?)

I love your theory, Jim, but I don’t think that was how they were built. I believe CKD (crated, knocked down) vehicles received their serial plates when the body tubs were welded up, not later when they were assembled overseas. And they were not assembled, then disassembled. The component parts were trucked to a separate part of the plant, where they were crated for shipment. Each body part was inserted into a very specific place inside or around the body tub in order to make the crates as small as possible.

And I agree with Dwain. The engine plant probably would have made a run of export engines all in a row, either to satisfy a known order or for stock. It’s the old KISS principal at work. So I don’t think 82 export engines in one day is out of the realm of possibility. They may have made nothing but export 6s that day. Only a review of all the production orders for that day would tell us for sure.

[studegary]

Hi Gary,

Do you happen to have also the 1963 figures too? If so, that is of great interest to me.
Thanks by advance.

Sorry, I don't have that number here.
If someone has the Fred K. Fox Turning Wheels feature article covering the 1963 Hawks, it is probably in that.

I believe that the 82 export engine number is for all 170 CID engines made for export that day, no matter what body style they were destined for (even, perhaps some for stock).

[Jim B PEI]

I love your theory, Jim, but I don’t think that was how they were built. I believe CKD (crated, knocked down) vehicles received their serial plates when the body tubs were welded up, not later when they were assembled overseas. And they were not assembled, then disassembled. The component parts were trucked to a separate part of the plant, where they were crated for shipment. Each body part was inserted into a very specific place inside or around the body tub in order to make the crates as small as possible.

And I agree with Dwain. The engine plant probably would have made a run of export engines all in a row, either to satisfy a known order or for stock. It’s the old KISS principal at work. So I don’t think 82 export engines in one day is out of the realm of possibility. They may have made nothing but export 6s that day. Only a review of all the production orders for that day would tell us for sure.

Skip, I bow to your knowledge. I have read somewhere that some CKD cars WERE partially assembled, then partially dis-assembled and tightly packed for shipment. I wonder if it was a Kaiser-Frazer practice, instead of Studebaker?

[christophe]

Sorry, I don't have that number here.
If someone has the Fred K. Fox Turning Wheels feature article covering the 1963 Hawks, it is probably in that.

[guy]

Hi all,
taking all above together let me think engines where shipped seperately from the cars and at D'Ieteren they didn't put the engine in the car with the right serial.
I have the question outstanding with D'Ieteren. When I know more I will for sure post it here
Guy

[Skip Lackie]

Skip, I bow to your knowledge. I have read somewhere that some CKD cars WERE partially assembled, then partially dis-assembled and tightly packed for shipment. I wonder if it was a Kaiser-Frazer practice, instead of Studebaker?

Bowing to my knowledge is probably a bad idea. I suspect we're both operating on the "liitle bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" principal. My "knowledge" is based on my weak memory of a number of old TW articles describing Stude's export business operations. I know the post-1948 CKD trucks were crated up at the opposite end of the Chippewa Ave plant from where the truck production line was. Since all the parts were at the other end of the building, it would have been simple to draw on the parts supply as necessary as export orders came in. I have always assumed a somewhat similar procedure was used for export car production, but (given how long it's been since I read those articles) am less sure of my facts for the cars.

[studegary]

Your first assumption is invalid. 1963 Hawks were built for the entire model year. 1964 Hawks were only built from September to December 1963.

[8E45E]

There were only 224 six cylinder 1964 Hawks built in the World.

Considering they were all destined for export, that is a rather high percentage. That's nearly 13% of the 1767 G.T. Hawks made for 1964.

Craig

[studee64]

The GT Hawk Registry has some information/pics on VIN 63-S-11606 and 64-S-11755 ALSO very unique 63-S-32871
distributed via France.
See www.studebakergthawkregistry.ca