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What part of originality is important?.

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  • What part of originality is important?.

    I have seen many posts about " original items". There seems to be a difference of
    opinion, on what things are important and what is not. Some of you tell us your
    opinions on what is and what is not. Example: HEATER HOSE CLAMPS vs CORRECT
    PAINT CODE STICKER and COLOR.

  • #2
    I like to see paint schemes correct evem if the color is changed. ie: no flat black inner fenders and under hood areas.
    Don't spray bomb detail without masking!
    If you want to restore it like a chevy, then buy a chevy.
    I dont knock different drive trains, but then too, don't put cheap universal flex hoses and cheap chrome valve covers and plastic wire looms.
    Do quality work and well engineered thoughtful and safe mods, and it's all good.
    Bez Auto Alchemy
    573-318-8948
    http://bezautoalchemy.com


    "Don't believe every internet quote" Abe Lincoln

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    • #3
      There is something to be said about the "perfect" restoration to original. They are only original once and restoring that originality is an exercise for the extremely well heeled who will only trailer their vehicle to the judging stand. Those vehicles are to be rightly admired and photographed, NOT to be driven.
      Upgrade to modern components for the sake of safety if you are to enjoy your ride: hose clamps, radial tires, safety glass in the case of the very old vehicles, etc.
      As Bez said, why use generic flex hoses when original formed ones are available. Change what needs changed for safety, not for a cheaper alternative.
      And, if you've decided to go modified with Stude power, change anything you want but change it with a quality standard in mind.
      "All attempts to 'rise above the issue' are simply an excuse to avoid it profitably." --Dick Gregory

      Brad Johnson, SDC since 1975, ASC since 1990
      Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
      sigpic'33 Rockne 10, '51 Commander Starlight, '53 Commander Starlight "Désirée"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Flashback View Post
        I have seen many posts about " original items". There seems to be a difference of
        opinion, on what things are important and what is not. Some of you tell us your
        opinions on what is and what is not. Example: HEATER HOSE CLAMPS vs CORRECT
        PAINT CODE STICKER and COLOR.
        Not sure which you are asking for comments about:

        ORIGINAL or CORRECT ...they are not necessarily the same.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Welcome View Post
          Not sure which you are asking for comments about:

          ORIGINAL or CORRECT ...they are not necessarily the same.
          Yes...original means it's the part it left the assembly line with. Correct means it's an identical part...date code, part number, etc. Swap the parts off two cars assembled one behind the other after they leave the assembly line would make them correct, but not original to the car.

          A distinction without any difference, I know...but it can drive purists crazy.
          Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

          Comment


          • #6
            What is the opinion on adding factory options? example- My 64 GT, did not come with TT but I am adding a Studebaker TT rear. I am also changing the car from column shift automatic to a factory 4 speed, via another parts car. Not the factory build but all period correct Studebaker, from other Hawks. Body and interior colors will be original.
            I like orginality but it also has to make the owner happy.
            Mark

            Comment


            • #7
              As I have gotten older, the "original" factor has become less important to me. Any original component that can be upgraded for safety is OK in my book. Disc brakes, radial tires, modern wiring, safety belts, mirrors, and aftermarket turn signals come to mind.

              Unless a car is still sporting its original paint, I am never impressed by someone repainting a car with original lacquer or enamel when there are much greater and durable paint formulations available in correct colors.


              Adding correct factory offered options later like twin traction, overdrive, radio, turn signals, back up lights, or in the case of older cars and trucks, two tail lights, is always OK with me.


              About the only thing that bothers me is radical customs that butcher up the cars and trucks to the point that it is difficult to determine the car's original make.


              The late Bob Yale built two wonderful rods that come to mind. One was a 35 President, and the other a 50 or 51 Land Cruiser. Both could cruise the interstate comfortably and blow your doors off, but from just a few feet away, except for the stance and wheels, they could be mistaken for original Studebakers.
              John Clary
              Greer, SC

              SDC member since 1975

              Comment


              • #8
                I knew I would get caught on the original and correct thing. I know the difference.
                I guess "Important was more the key word. My 53 had the original paint, when I
                got it, original upholstery, and so on. My intent was to "Restore" it to correct. The
                main item that stopped me was the pot metal regal trim. Anyway, it's now a modified
                car. Here's one question, for discussion: Where does modified start? To me, if it's not
                the correct color, then it's modified. You can't paint the car the wrong color and then
                make every thing else correct, and have correctly restored car. The paint is only one
                example I am using.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I love to look at restored correct cars and I admire the talent it takes to do one, but I don't really want to own a correct car. If modifications are done tastefully most people won't know the difference and most of those who do will appreciate the care taken. I have never been impressed by a car or truck loaded down with all of the original accessories they can carry.
                  "In the heart of Arkansas."
                  Searcy, Arkansas
                  1952 Commander 2 door. Really fine 259.
                  1952 2R pickup

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To me, 'original' means that all of the car has only Studebaker parts which came on the car off the assembly line or were available from Studebaker for repairs and additions. Putting factory turn signals or backup lights made by Studebaker for that model maintains originality. Putting Turner brakes on the car for safety does not qualify as original, but should not be a negative on any judging. Instead of telling people "my car is original", you should say "my car is original but I upgraded the brakes". Put a V8 in a car that could not have come with it is a modification, that ends originality. Painting it a different color modifies it. I am one who believes that the definition of 'original' is very specific.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I am with John when it comes to paint. The only time I have had the oppertunity of visiting South Bend & saw the last 66 on display I was taken back on how bad the paint was. Dull & orange peeled, not what I had remembered seeing as far as quality goes in the last 66's I saw in Plainfield, New Jersey showeroom. My first Avanti I painted back in August 1994 and today it still shines as if it was done last week because it was done original color but base coat/clear coat. I was disappointed when a club member said that although the paint looked real good it wasnt up to his standards due to the clear coat & if it was put in for judging, that would deduct for it.
                      59 Lark wagon, now V-8, H.D. auto!
                      60 Lark convertible V-8 auto
                      61 Champ 1/2 ton 4 speed
                      62 Champ 3/4 ton 5 speed o/drive
                      62 Champ 3/4 ton auto
                      62 Daytona convertible V-8 4 speed & 62 Cruiser, auto.
                      63 G.T. Hawk R-2,4 speed
                      63 Avanti (2) R-1 auto
                      64 Zip Van
                      66 Daytona Sport Sedan(327)V-8 4 speed
                      66 Cruiser V-8 auto

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Warren Webb View Post
                        I am with John when it comes to paint. The only time I have had the oppertunity of visiting South Bend & saw the last 66 on display I was taken back on how bad the paint was. Dull & orange peeled, not what I had remembered seeing as far as quality goes in the last 66's I saw in Plainfield, New Jersey showeroom. My first Avanti I painted back in August 1994 and today it still shines as if it was done last week because it was done original color but base coat/clear coat. I was disappointed when a club member said that although the paint looked real good it wasnt up to his standards due to the clear coat & if it was put in for judging, that would deduct for it.
                        The sad fact is, perfect orginal is not going to beat a "better" restored example. The PO that spent over 50K before I put more in to finish my old R2 GT is what is needed to build a high point car today. It took over 100 hours of labor to block sand every wave off the body.
                        JDP Maryland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Warren Webb View Post
                          I am with John when it comes to paint. The only time I have had the oppertunity of visiting South Bend & saw the last 66 on display I was taken back on how bad the paint was. Dull & orange peeled, not what I had remembered seeing as far as quality goes in the last 66's I saw in Plainfield, New Jersey showeroom. My first Avanti I painted back in August 1994 and today it still shines as if it was done last week because it was done original color but base coat/clear coat. I was disappointed when a club member said that although the paint looked real good it wasnt up to his standards due to the clear coat & if it was put in for judging, that would deduct for it.
                          Perhaps the point there is cars can be over restored. For instance doing a frame off rebuild and having the frame powder coated. Certainly that makes it more durable, but it is better than the frame ever came from the factory. I have seen restorers going for originality go as far as to put factory type chalk markings back on the firewall or engine compartment fenders. My inclination would be to scrub such things off, but that would detract from "factory originality" since that is how the cars left the factory. I think a major problem trying to achieve originality is there had to be variances based on where or when the car was built and who was working the assembly line that particular day. Seems very difficult to document every possible variation that could have occurred.
                          Pat Dilling
                          Olivehurst, CA
                          Custom '53 Starlight aka STU COOL


                          LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/jour...ournalid=33611

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What part of originality is important?.
                            1. If your car is entered in an original/restored/correct class in a judged show, then every part of originality is important. Don't start whining if points are deducted because experienced judges think it isn't original or correct. They are more often right than wrong and most likely you just didn't want to spend the bucks and time to make it correct. And no, I wouldn't be a SDC show judge for any amount of money.

                            2. If not for show judging points, then only those parts which matter to you. You'll get as many different answers as there are car guys. A couple of our members have beautiful Stude-appearing cars of which only a few sections of sheet metal are original. They paid big bucks to get them that way. There are others who spent equally big bucks to get their Studes as original as possible and correct where the original part was gone or couldn't be saved.

                            My experience is it is wasted effort to try to defend your originality or lack thereof decisions on the basis of heritage, political correctness, safety, cost, utility, parts availability, resale value - just say, "I like it this way."

                            jack vines
                            PackardV8

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It's original if it hasnt been touched.It's restored if it has.
                              Car has been painted? Even if it is the correct color it is still restored.
                              Interior replaced with original factory material? Restored.
                              Mono mind in a stereo world

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