Avanti- unbearable Interior Heat/lack of ventilation

[53k]

I believe the external heater hose shut off valve is a good idea for a start. It is easy to do, and having a tank of boiling hot water under the dash can't help my situation.... though by design, this should not be necessary. In fact that is, EXACTLY what the heater control valve under the dash is supposed to do, right?

I will start the process of elimination. I suppose fiberglass is not a very good heat insulator, and with the three-speed automatic transmission and 3.73 gears, I find I am running a rather alarming 3800 PM at 75 MPH.

I am amazed at the temperature under the hood when I open it up. I have owned many high performance cars, and this thing is like a furnace. The temperatire gauge reads just over 180 degrees and I have recored the radiator; so far no overheating. I seriously wanted to avoid adding Air Conditioning to a car that I will drive sparingly. But the current situation is rather unbearable.

I had the same rpm at speed dilemma on my '64 R-2 automatic- couldn't hear the AM-FM radio even. I wasn't concerned much about performance so I swapped the 3.73 pumpkin for a 3.07. That made a WORLD of difference in cruising and I didn't notice enough performance decrease to bother me (still could burn rubber in a second gear start). I also ran 225x75x15 tires which made the speedometer/odometer much more accurate too (205s are too small in diameter).

[Retired]

I added a early Satun Station wagon spoiler to the lower edge of our '63 Avanti radiator to assist in cooling. It appears that the turbulance created under the engine compartment causes the hot air to be "sucked" downward and disipated under the car.

[WCP]

Putting a shutoff valve in the heater hose, as suggested, is a good idea. On that note, do you have the hose hookup to the valve correct? I don't believe that the valve will stay closed properly if the hoses are reversed. A good reference is the parts book illustration. Follow the dotted lines. They do cross over and can be confusing, but the illustration is correct. The seal between the heater fan housing and firewall is important to keep out engine heat from the cab. Another factor is the height of the front end of your car. A lot of Avanti owners prefer the nose-down attitude but that can substantially increase the heat flow down the tunnel. The Avanti height specification calls for 18" from ground to the bottom of the front bumper and 19 5/8" from ground to the bottom of the rear bumper. A ground hugging front end may be good for racing, but not for keeping the car cool. Resolve the hot air out of the vents first. That just shouldn't be. At this point we are planning on attending the meet at Sturbridge, Mass. in August, and I will be happy to compare autos at that time if you are there. An additional thought! You mentioned that the rad was recored - hopefully not with a 4-tube core. That restricts the air flow too much. Actually, a 2-tube radiator works quite well in an Avanti. I know of a certain factory R3 Avanti that runs quite well with a 2-tube radiator.

[studegary]

On Studebaker V-8s that I only use in the warm weather, I normally replace the heater hose nipples in the engine with pipe plugs and then put the hoses back on the plugs. Everything looks the same, but you have no hot water circulating and no chance of a problem with heater hoses or heater core.

[jgrohs]

after putting a/c in my 63 for the drive from No. Cal to Glendale, Az, the car was just too hot - especially in 100 degree weather just outside Palm Springs. Besides giving the cooloing system a refresher ( especially popping the freeze plugs and swabbing the block out), I'm planning to put in the saturn airdam, dynamat, maybe the center cowl vents, and whatever else it takes ( short of, I hope, replacing the transmission).

[wfhenderson]

I suppose I am going to do the same basic things, as suggested here by people with more experience than I have. For a car I don't plan on driving on the highway for long distances, I too would like to avoid changing transmissions, but hearing that poor pushrod engine screaming along at 4000 RPM on the highway really is uncomfortable to my sensibilities.

The carpet in my car is glued to the floor so massively that it will be impossible to remove without destroying it. Thank you, prior owner.

So far I have been unable to find the article about venting air into the transmission tunnel. If anyone has a copy,or a link to it online I would be very appreciative.

[tluz]

Really interesting thread for me. My '63 R-2399 is still in its body-off-frame state, about to be painted. After painting, I have to deal with this heated cabin issue. The car has A/C, which I have to have converted to modern coolant. That aside, though, I would like to insulate the cabin from the huge amount of heat the engine and exhaust generate. I have already dumped the 3-speed automatic in favor of a World Class T-5 from a '93 Mustang, so I hope for some lessening of heat there. The question is, what else should i do, given that the car is in the most workable state possible?

This thread has touched on butyl liners like Dyna-Mat; ceramic spray-ons like Lizard skin; exhaust heat shields; heater core shut-off valves; new grommets, and other good ideas. Any opinions on the most cost-effective combination of ideas that would improve the comfort level of the car on a hot day? Put another way, if you had a car with a clean body on a rolling rack and easy access to everything, what would you do and why?

[jgrohs]

service letter number F-1964-6, "Console cooling kit - Avanti models without air conditioning". I'll try to scan a copy tomorrow and post.

looking at this for the the first time in a while, I can see that it won't work for me in the exact way they listed with my newly installed a/c...

Jeff

So far I have been unable to find the article about venting air into the transmission tunnel. If anyone has a copy,or a link to it online I would be very appreciative.

[Rich]

I agree with Jack Vines and Richard. I went through most of all the suggestions listed here but believe the two most significant things are installing a good front air dam and swapping in a 700-R4. I installed new rubber tubes from the 64 style cowl vents down to the tranny tunnel, sealed the firewall, installed ceramic matting on the lower part of the firewall extending about a foot back on the bottom of the floorboard; ensured the radiator and engine block were clean, installed a 7 blade fan, Dynamat and Dynaliner - car was so much cooler it was amazing. Only time I ever remember even thinking about engine heat was on a 95 degree day in heavy stop'n go traffic for almost an hour. This was on a 64 R-1 with AC (#5367).

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress

Rich

[clonelark]

I find it amazing this thread has never came up since i have been on the web(at least 10 years). I've talked myself out of owning an Avanti. Think i'll start looking for a 41 LandCruiser.

[Rerun]

Tom,

Glad to hear that you are still making steady progress. You are going to have one fantastic car when you finish. I think that all of the things that you plan to do are excellent.

I think that there is one more issue that deserves discussion. That is "flow through" ventilation. One problem with the Avanti ventilation is that there is no where for the air to go. When the vents are opened, the cabin takes on a positive pressure and the result is annoying wind noise at the weatherstripping around the windows. If you open a vent window, the flow is improved, but the noise increases. The lack of "flow through" also affects the operation of the A/C unit.

I have heard that some of the later Avanti models had a duct added to allow air to flow out. IIRC this was under the rear seat. I don't know if this is accurate, and/or what years would have had this feature. Perhaps some of our more learned members could comment on this. If such a modification does exist, and is effective, now would be the time to install it in your Avanti.

[okc63avanti]

They may not be comfortable at times, but they are so damn pretty, I've owned dozens. They are a pain to drive, except with AC, and murder to work on, but on occasion, they are worth it. BTW, N8 and I successfully installed a Avanti dash pad today on the newest cheap Avanti. I'm keeping track of the labor hours out of curiosity to see what a pro would charge for our labor.

JDP ... where did you get your dash pad? Mike and Ed Reynolds have been working with a company in Texas that is making repro dash pads and they have had trouble getting the fit just right. Perhaps they have gotten the bugs worked out now.

If my Avanti has dyna-mat everywhere, inside firewall, on trans hump, inside doors, under carpet and head liner and it will also have AC with 5 speed trannie will I need the cowl ventalation mod for the trans tunnel?

[JDP]

JDP ... where did you get your dash pad? Mike and Ed Reynolds have been working with a company in Texas that is making repro dash pads and they have had trouble getting the fit just right. Perhaps they have gotten the bugs worked out now.

If my Avanti has dyna-mat everywhere, inside firewall, on trans hump, inside doors, under carpet and head liner and it will also have AC with 5 speed trannie will I need the cowl ventalation mod for the trans tunnel?

There was a NOS pad in the trunk, banged up a little, but decent.

[WCP]

okc63avanti - you shouldn't have any problem keeping your car cool. I don't know anything about Dyna-mat, but if you seal up your Avanti properly and everything is working as it was designed to do, then you don't need additional tunnel cooling. I don't understand all the fuss over hot avantis. I always put felt padding under the carpets and ensure that the firewall area on both sides has a full hardboard and fibreglass insulation piece under the toe pads. I use no extra insulation under the stock headliners. I make sure that the kickcowl vents seal outside air and open properly. I very well remember driving my R1 Avanti with A/C home from the Indianapolis national meet in 100F air, and being comfortably cool with my wife and son on board. I recall stopping at a thruway rest area and leaving the car run while we took turns at the washroom. When you opened the door, it felt like a blast furnace in your face 'till the door was closed. On that trip, I had a caliper come free and jam the wheel on I75 coming into Dearborn. It was so hot that the small trolley jack that I carried, sunk into the asphalt on the shoulder of the interstate. My present ride is an R2 with Tremec T5 and no A/C. It is similarly assembled as my former R1. It is quite tolerable to drive as I have done, in 95F air on the thruway. Granted, it would be nicer to have A/C, but at this point, I don't think it is worth the effort to modify the engine bay. I typically travel with a bottle of drinking water leaning against the passenger seat and console carpet, and it stays cool enough to drink on a long trip. The carpets and underpad in my car were supplied by JDP and installed with screws as per factory. It is a mistake to glue them in. I have removed and ruined new installations that were glued in, during subsequent restorations. I don't use heat shields. My exhaust system is as supplied by Don Simmonds with the round SS mufflers, 2" all around. Highway noise is quite acceptable under normal driving conditions and really only gets loud if you "get on it".

[jgrohs]

I find it amazing this thread has never came up since i have been on the web(at least 10 years). I've talked myself out of owning an Avanti. Think i'll start looking for a 41 LandCruiser.

My first Studebaker was a 41 Landcruiser. Definitely a different driving experience than an Avanti!