An R4 Studebaker?

[tstclr]

Someone is selling an article on Ebay about a 64 "R4" Studebaker. The article shows a Dayonta Convertible with some really cool wheels. From what I can make out in the article pictured, the "R4" is 304.5 CI engine, twin 4bbl carbs (!), "12:1 heads", twin traction rear end, disc brakes on front, vented rear drums, HD shocks and springs, 160mph speedo and 8000rpm tach. I can't make out the rest of the article other than it appears to be from the Canadian plant (or was built in Canada) and would compete in "C-Stock" drag racing. Can anyone fill in the blanks?
Here is the ebay ad: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-...08271770QQrdZ1

Todd

63 Lark 2dr Sedan

[N8N]

The wheels are Halibrands, and the engine is basically an R3 with higher compression and without a supercharger. Only a handful of the engines were made and I'm not sure if any regular production cars were made with an R4 - I wanna say none, but not 100% on that.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop

http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

[Dan White]

I seem to remember an article Ted Harbit had on his website about an R4 Daytona being built for Hot Rod or one of the auto magazines in 1963. I believe they drove it back to California from South Bend.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

[Swifster]

Yeah, I read that article. I think they were trying to give a hand while it was being built. I've heard about the convertible as well. So that makes two.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

[tstclr]

Any 1/4 mile times posted?

Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

[JDP]

Car Life Magazine, one built, 1/4 mile in the 14-15 second ramge. Not a good drag car, mostly a salt flats rngine.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 GT Hawk
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
53 Street rod

[Jessie J.]

Read the last paragraph in the article, there is the reason that we don't have any R-4 Larks.

[Mike]

I suspect the convertible had the R4 installed at Paxton, by the Granatelli's; and so wasn't a "factory" R4.
Only one R4 car was supposed to have left South Bend that way. According to JTN issue 11, it was a Daytona Hardtop; 64V15405, with engine # R4K325. It's the car built in the "Car Life" article; and was used as a factory PR demo. Ron Ellerbe bought it from Paxton/Granatelli's, in 1967. The engine had been changed to an R3 and the trans to powershift. In the July '98 list of R3/R4 factory cars, it was: now running a P289...present condition unknown... high mileage...". I understand the owner doesn't want publicity.
Cars Magazine, R4 Daytona Conv. Article & Car Life Magazine, R4 Daytona HT Article, were at Bob Johnstones web site.
Mike M.

[Jessie J.]

Here are the last few paragraphs of the CARS article.

quote:But the price! This is a drawback. Our test car had a list West Coast tag...of $4809...plus 135 dollars shipping charge... a whopping total of $4944.63 plus taxes and license yet!
You'd pay over five grand for this R-4 equipped Daytona, And, like man, thats lots-a-money!
This amount of money would buy a Fairlane w/DSO 33A package (lists around 3500 dollars,) a Dodge (or) Plymouth 426 S/S (around three grand), or 427 Galaxie, and leave you with a much more "sure" winner in the big "where-it-counts" class plus money to run on.
Now that Studebaker can be listed officialy as an imported car (sic), there are many "five-grand" machines that are grand (touring type) available. The XKE is almost there, the Lancia line is close, The 'Vettes start out at a list of only 4,037 dollars (convertible). Cobra's (street version) at around five.
The new Alpine Cobra will have a list of only $3,495...shipped fromEngland
One would have to want to own this Daytona a lot to shell out five grand. (The new Chevelle with newly announced 327 option wouldn't be much over $2600 here list. CARS thinks that the five grand (man, that's 'lots-a-money') would be better spent buying two Chevelles, one to race, and one to tow!

Not how I would have written it (of course) and hind-sight always holds the advantage, but the point being well made by this article is that this R-4 Studebaker was way over-priced to be competitive in the marketplace.
No doubt, we can all envision that Super-Lark we would have ordered given the opportunity back then, but I doubt any of us would have been any more immune to the economic realities of that time.
Notice that when this article was published, Studebaker was already "listed officially as an imported car" ie the SB operations were already being phased out, and Studebaker was quick to announce that almost all the "performance package" and related options were NLA.
By the time the R-3 and R-4 vehicle road tests were reaching publication, the cars themselves were already 'history', that's what really took the wind out of all of Granatelli's Bonneville efforts, Studebaker wasn't selling what he had been demonstrating.
Then there is another consideration that many here would be unaware of unless they were there in those times to experience it first-hand, and that was the unwillingness of lenders to finance loans for rare, or 'expensive' Studebaker models.
Remember, there was no significant "Collector Car" market at that time, and the Ford Model A was about the only old car with any recognized status as an "antique", there was nothing at all comparable to the immense "investment car" market that now prevails and sustains values. A "used car", was just a "used car", a devalued car, and a 'discontinued' make, was as devalued as they come.
In 1968 I attempted to find the financing to purchase a virtually brand new '64 Avanti, (at this time, the owner, a wealthy doctor, had never even allowed the car to be rained on)
I was refused financing because the vehicle was 'unacceptable'
by whatever 'guidelines' they were employing, within a month however, that same lender financed my purchase of a '68 Mercury Cougar GT 390 4 speed.
I kept trying over the following decade, and every single time I attempted to finance an Avanti, I was refused, but never on any of my other vehicle purchases new or used.
Now I have the assets, that if I really wanted an Avanti, I could easily obtain one, but like a lot of guys on here, the charms of the Larks have totally won me over.

[StudeRich]

Todd; It would not run as strong as an R3, remember the rated horsepower (which we now know was low) was: 335 and more commonly 305 on the R3, but only 289 on a unsupercharged dual Quad. 304 cid. R4. And you know what Ted Harbit turns with a lighter than Avanti, '64 Lark Challenger 2dr. sedan. [^]
Rich.

quote:Originally posted by tstclr

Any 1/4 mile times posted?

Todd


63 Lark 2dr Sedan

StudeRich
Ferndale, WA

[Laemmle]

R-3 BHP was "claimed" to be 335 by Studebaker, it is now well established that the mill actually put out in excess of 400 with the high output pulley set.
R-4s were claimed to be 280BHP again by Studebaker, but with 12 to 1 compression how in the world would you run the beast today? We all do not have Cam 2 stations down at the corner! An R-4 does look very impressive under a hood, no doubt!

[tstclr]

Does anyone know anything about the dual quad intakes? How many were cast?
Todd

[Jessie J.]

Not very many, the last R-4 set-up that have I seen for sale was years ago, and was priced at $2200, I'd expect you could add another grand or two onto that today, IF you could find a seller willing to part with this "Holy Grail" of Studebaker parts.
Also the factory R-3 and R-4 intakes will only fit on the R-3 or R-4 heads, unless you want to make major modifications - not advisable.
The Cadillac 2x4 conversion though it is despised by some, can be done, but to fit, and to perform properly it requires radical port modifications to a set of standard Studebaker heads, and being so reworked they will no longer be usable with any stock Stude intakes.
But the good news on this is that it 'can' be done - and inexpensively by any determined and patient backyard mechanic.
And as has been mentioned many times, if it is only the 'looks' of a 2x4 set-up that you are after, the Caddy intakes can just be bolted on with a minimal slotting of bolt holes and a lot of gasket sealer, the port-match will be terrible, but it will run, and might even perform slightly better than a stock 4 barrel, but no where near its real potential.
Whether R-4 or Cadillac, these 2x4 intakes have way too large of runners and cfm capacity for efficient use with the Stude engines small bore, displacement, and valve sizes.

[mbstude]

I know of a guy who owns a R4 Avanti clone. He had Halibrands, as well as EVERY other option available on a 63 Avanti. he said he forked out $2700.00 for the NICE Halibrands, and another $2500 or so for the dual carb setup. I actually got to ride it this machine, right after driving Jeff Rice's 37 CE hot rod. I also rode in a 04 Avantivertible, and a NICE 1911 Flanders runabout, and MANY other Studes. I had a good time at that show...

Matthew Burnette, the 15 year old Stude nut.
[img] http://jnautoair.com/images/yelstude2.jpg [/img]
63 Daytona HT (my car)
57 Silver Hawk
51 Champ Starlight
63 GT Hawk
64 Commander Wagonaire
59 Scotsman P/U
79 Dodge Lil Red Express
65 Triumph Spitfire
MANY more Studes
And a few parts cars

http://community.webshots.com/user/mbstude101

[Dan White]

I saw an aluminum R4 clone manifold on Dave T-bow's table at a number of Stude swap meets. I believe perhaps Lionel Stone made a run of them, but not sure if it was him or someone else.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT