Looking for information on a 63 hawk

[kramerdad1]

does anyone have any information with regard to a 1963 GT Hawk VIN 63V 26762? call or text dean 505-414-0617 or email: kramerdad1@aol.com

[Dwight FitzSimons]

This one?

https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/sale-want-found-cars/1969736-nice-looking-1963-hawk-on-ebay-but-with-no-title-not-mine

[6hk71400]

does anyone have any information with regard to a 1963 GT Hawk VIN 63V 26762? call or text dean 505-414-0617 or email: kramerdad1@aol.com

I called and talked to Dean at length. He was interested in the car but bells were going off. Dean is in law enforcement in New Mexico as was interested in the car. He found out the car was originally red. He ran a check on the plates and no history or record. He also said that a "dealer" cannot sell a car without a title. He is in the process of notifying Ebay as a law enforcement person and the state of the fraud on this car and should be pulled from Ebay.

He did call Tom as listed in the ad and got a few stories on the car. On story Tom told when asked about people keeping paperwork, Tom said all that was washed away in a flood. No website, no information on the dealer so he is having New Mexico contact Florida Law enforcement and Tom.

It is a shame all the way around. Dean does own a 1962 and 1963 Hawk and an Avanti and Avanti II. Dean will keep me posted and I will also keep him posted on comment here on the forum

Bob Miles
Not born a minute ago nor did I fall off the turnip truck

[Mark L]

I did an internet search for the telephone number listed in the eBay ad. The number came up associated with Sky Motorworks LLC in Sarasota. According to the Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles website, a person or business must be licensed as a dealer by the state to sell more than 3 vehicles in a 12 month period. The website also allows prospective buyers to do a search to verify if a dealer is licensed. According to the state's website, Sky Motorworks LLC is licensed as a dealer in the List of Licensed Independent, Wholesale, Auction and Salvage Dealers (R – Z).

I imagine Dean knows the laws in new Mexico very well since he's a law enforcement officer there, but I would not expect him to be an expert on Florida's laws. It's probably a good idea that he contacted law enforcement in Florida and let them determine if this is legitimate. The information I found on the state statute website appears to list a few instances where a dealer might be able to sell a vehicle in Florida without a title. The experts that Dean contacted in Florida should be able to sort that out.

My impression is that the dealer went to great lengths to indicate in the ad that there is currently no title. If they are absolutely 100% required to have a title in order to sell it, whey would they advertise in writing that there is no title if it could be used against them later by the state or a disappointed buyer?

I did an internet search for their address and found this Google street view image - and look what's on the property, right out in the open by the street, literally in broad daylight. A black over black Hawk. The image was taken in November 2022. Seems like a lousy place to hide a car. There are no plates on the car, front or rear, in the Google image.

The Florida Department of State website shows that Sky Motorworks voluntarily dissolved their corporation in April 2022. It shows that Tom Tengerdy was the principal agent. The Department of State website shows there are three active corporations currently registered at this address, one of which is Happy Buyers Automotive LLC, which is the same sign on the building above the Hawk in the photograph. The other two are both registered under the last name of Tengerdy. Of these three, only Happy Buyers Automotive is registered as an auto dealer, under the same category as Sky Motorworks, but the principal agent is listed as a different name.

I found all this on the internet in less than 60 minutes.

[6hk71400]

I did an internet search for the telephone number listed in the eBay ad. The number came up associated with Sky Motorworks LLC in Sarasota. According to the Florida Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles website, a person or business must be licensed as a dealer by the state to sell more than 3 vehicles in a 12 month period. The website also allows prospective buyers to do a search to verify if a dealer is licensed. According to the state's website, Sky Motorworks LLC is licensed as a dealer in the List of Licensed Independent, Wholesale, Auction and Salvage Dealers (R – Z).

I imagine Dean knows the laws in new Mexico very well since he's a law enforcement officer there, but I would not expect him to be an expert on Florida's laws. It's probably a good idea that he contacted law enforcement in Florida and let them determine if this is legitimate. The information I found on the state statute website appears to list a few instances where a dealer might be able to sell a vehicle in Florida without a title. The experts that Dean contacted in Florida should be able to sort that out.

My impression is that the dealer went to great lengths to indicate in the ad that there is currently no title. If they are absolutely 100% required to have a title in order to sell it, whey would they advertise in writing that there is no title if it could be used against them later by the state or a disappointed buyer?

I did an internet search for their address and found this Google street view image - and look what's on the property, right out in the open by the street, literally in broad daylight. A black over black Hawk. The image was taken in November 2022. Seems like a lousy place to hide a car. There are no plates on the car, front or rear, in the Google image.

The Florida Department of State website shows that Sky Motorworks voluntarily dissolved their corporation in April 2022. It shows that Tom Tengerdy was the principal agent. The Department of State website shows there are three active corporations currently registered at this address, one of which is Happy Buyers Automotive LLC, which is the same sign on the building above the Hawk in the photograph. The other two are both registered under the last name of Tengerdy. Of these three, only Happy Buyers Automotive is registered as an auto dealer, under the same category as Sky Motorworks, but the principal agent is listed as a different name.

I found all this on the internet in less than 60 minutes.

Great work Mark. Knowing the right way to search is over half the battle. Now as it is said this is where the rubber meets the road.

The car in the picture does look radically different from the car that is presented on Ebay. I am not saying there is a false representation. After all, the car could be cleaned up and hubcaps and plates be added to the car.

Now to the big question: Mark if you were in the market for a 1963 Gran Turismo Hawk, finding out about all the information on this car, would you buy it?

Did anyone else look at the Ebay ad and click on the link on the right as to sellers other items? Given all the information on the two posts, would they buy a car from Tom Tengerdy?

18 years ago, my son bought a used Camaro on Ebay to replace a totaled 2001 Pontiac Firebird. The accident was not his fault and the guy did not have insurance. That is another story. I wished that he had contacted me before he bought the car, as I am sure there were Camaro's in Tucson that he could have bought. I agreed to help him out and flew to Texas to get the car and drive it back. He bought it on his own with the money he got for the Firebird. When I arrived in Houston, someone met me and drove me to the "dealership". It was a couple of offices in an industrial park. Car was listed in the ad to have cruise control:it did not. The guy hem hawed around and started to offer to have a cruise control put on. I was on a tight schedule and had to be back to my job so did not have that done. I asked to have a refund in the amount to have it installed back in Tucson but denied. When I went to get the car titled and registered, it went to level 2 at the state. It had 3 owners in 2 years and had been in 2 accidents, but it did clear and my son got a title. When I contacted Ebay, they had already removed the "dealer" from their list of approved sellers prior to me contacting Ebay.

Sorry this is long but perhaps you can see why I am not fond of dealers on Ebay. This is not the only reason. As I have said often: Caveat emptor or buyer beware.

Bob Miles
Last Studebaker Dealer in Tucson Closed in 1966

[Mark L]

Would I buy the car? No. I currently live in a title state, and if there's no title and no way to get one, I would not buy it.

[kramerdad1]

You are 100% correct that states have different mvd requirements and laws. I have confirmed the plates in the ebay ad are from a different vehicle, I dont know why they were mounted, it just raised alarm bells. Id rather be safe then sorry when it comes to buying vehicles long distance. Tom's situation may be 100% legit , but would you roll the dice and spend thousands on a car with no title only to end up with it in impound and not sellable? A Bond would be the way to go but you cannot resell the car for 2 years and can be costly as there are VIN records or history to be garnered for this vehicle. A Bill of Sale can't be issued on this car because there is no known legal owner. The story is the now deceased "owner" bought the car but never titled it, the titles were lost in the floods, so he was never the legal owner, the widow cant get an Heir Lien because her husband never legally owned the car( according to Florida)) . I did trace the car back to an auction in NY but the auctioneer said all those records are long gone. Unless the last registered owner steps forward it will be a hassle to get legal ownership. Ill let FSP take a look, hopefully they can clear it up.

[mbstude]

This seems like a lot of drama for a car that isn’t scarce, or even worth a lot of money.

There are a lot of GT Hawks out there.

[kramerdad1]

Not if you were the buyer of a car with a clouded title and couldnt register it, drive it or legally resell it.

[Skip Lackie]

Agree with kramerdad1. There have been two different threads, most of which were dedicated to the issues of: (1) the (admitted) lack of a title, (2) the inconsistencies of the listed serial numbers, and (3) a lot on the ease/difficulty of registering a vehicle without a title and with a somewhat hazy ownership history in the state of (you chose).

[Dwight FitzSimons]

The '63 Hawk in the Google Earth pic has the same oddball, too-wide placement, front bumper guards as does the car on ebay. So, it appears to be the same car. Boy, I would like to hire the detail guy who worked on that car! He/she did amazing work.

Over the years I have bought two Studebakers (both GT Hawks) with irregularities in their previous ownership and my brother has bought one (56J). So, the scrutiny is justified.

The current ebay listing of this '63 is up to $5600 with 4+ days left.
--Dwight

[mbstude]

Not if you were the buyer of a car with a clouded title and couldnt register it, drive it or legally resell it.

That’s what I was referring to.. The seller is very open about the paperwork being MIA. If that’s a problem, then don’t buy the car. Why get tangled up in someone else’s mess?

GT Hawks aren’t rare or uncommon. There’s always a few on the open market at any given time. Buy one that doesn’t have paperwork issues.

[kramerdad1]

I think we've beat this horse to death , the point is Buyer Beware