1948 M16 trans upgrade

[Guest]

I just got my first m-cab, a 48 1.5 ton, 152"wb, and looking to upgrade the tranny, maybe o.d., 5 speed, something a bit more driver friendly?
can anyone reccomend a good swap?

[rkapteyn]

A two speed rear end will make it a lot easier.
The Borg Warner T9 4speed is the standard trans in this truck
I am not sure if a 5 Sp. overdrive will bolt in.
Studebaker used a New Process trans later but again I do not know if this bolts up.
Bob K.

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by rkapteyn

A two speed rear end will make it a lot easier.

The standard 2 speed rear end was slow and slower . It gave you an even LOWER set of ratios, not a higher set, unfortunately. 2 speed ratios were 5.64/8.22, 6.03/8.00, and 6.13/8.10. (can you imagine the granny low gear in the 4 speed pushing an 8.22 rear end [V])

There was never a 1.5 ton M series made. The M15 was a 1 ton and the M16 was a 2 ton.

The M16 was built to haul (slowly). The Commander 6 was the biggest engine Studebaker had then, but it was small relative to the size of the truck and the loads it had to carry. For this reason, the truck was geared REAL low. Ratios in an M16 were either 5.66 or 6.66...neither will get you very fast on the highway.

OTOH, you don't WANT to go very fast [^]. Brakes were adequate for 45 MPH or so but would be real scary at 60 [:0]...so would the steering.

Unless you plan a suspension, steering, brake, rear end, and engine swap, it would probably be best just to enjoy (?) the old truck the way it was built. It will get you there (slowly).

Try the Studebaker Truck Talk page. Lots of very knowledgeable folks there.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/23885/

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

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[Bill Elbert]

I drove my 47 M-16 home to Texas from our farm in Kansas, a 500 or so mile trip. Top speed downhill with a good tailwind was about 55 and she was mighty wound out. With customary stops and the likes, only took 14 hours.

Bill Elbert

57 3E11
48 M16
46 M15
46 M5

[studelark]

[quote]Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp



There was never a 1.5 ton M series made. The M15 was a 1 ton and the M16 was a 2 ton.

OTOH, you don't WANT to go very fast [^]. Brakes were adequate for 45 MPH or so but would be real scary at 60 [:0]...so would the steering.

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Congratulations, 4ward, on your first M series truck. I, too, own a 1948 M16-52 with a Boyer fire truck body. My truck has slightly over 10,000 miles and came from the Bloomington Volunteer Fire Company, Bloomington, Wisconsin.

I have to differ with Dick on his statement that Studebaker did not build 1 1/2 ton trucks. All domestic M16's were nominally rated and began life as 1 1/2 ton trucks. The only 2 ton production M series truck built was the M17 which was an export model only.

Having established that, the factory did provide an optional Heavy Duty package at extra cost on the M16's with the 2 speed rear axle. This package included fish-plated chassis frame rails, heavy duty springs front and rear, hydrovac power brakes, brake booster reservoir, engine governor, and heavy duty front shocks. Such trucks carried an 'X' as a suffix in the serial number. These 'heavier duty' trucks were, in essence, a 2 ton rated truck, but were never advertised as such. My fire truck is one of these Heavy Duty units.

My fire truck, with new tires, can reach 60 mph with no undo problems. Anything faster is fiddling with danger!!![}][xx(] It's cruising speed on the open road is about 52 mph in fourth gear, high speed rear. At those speeds, with the brake system completely restored, there's no problem. The brakes bring it down from speed straight and without any feeling of horror.

I do not know of any five speed overdrive main transmission that will hook up to the 226 cubic inch six in your truck. If your truck does not have a 2 speed rear axle, that would be a place to start, as already mentioned. It won't make it a performer, but it's better than a straight rear axle on the highway.

Keep us informed and we'd love to have you over on STUDEBAKER TRUCK TALK. Some really knowledgable truckers there.[}]

Frank Drumheller
Louisa, VA
60S-W6
1948 M16-52 Boyer fire truck

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by studelark


I have to differ with Dick on his statement that Studebaker did not build 1 1/2 ton trucks. All domestic M16's were nominally rated and began life as 1 1/2 ton trucks.

Thanks for the correction, Frank [:I]



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

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[Sharon]

Have you read your manual? These trucks were built to go 45/50 mph. Driving faster will tear the whole thing up. If you want to drive faster get a deisel engine and new brakes. Have you tried to stop at 45? There is a point, as you approach a stoplight, OF NO RETURN! I drove to SB, 250 miles one way, it was great fun and exhausting!

[Guest]

Thanks for all the response to everyone!
I have yet to get a manual, but will be doing so in short order.
45 or 50 is fast enough, but what I was hoping for is a fully syncro box, or at least 2nd on up. I will research further on that NP Bob K mentioned.
maybe in the future I would think about more extensive modifications, but I'm really more old school, and this truck is too nice and complete to go changing too much.
I will be looking for a bed for her in the near future, but would like to find a period correct one.
Anyone have a lead on a vintage sleeper, anywhere in the western states???

Thanks again!

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by 4ward
but what I was hoping for is a fully syncro box, or at least 2nd on up.

You'll get good at double clutching after driving it a while. It will be second nature. No problem. Much easier and cheaper (and more fun [8D]) than adapting a different transmission to it.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

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[Bellingham Studenut]

Check your gearing options if you are only going to drive without a heavy load.
I have driven our M16 Fire Truck on a 100 and a 200 mile freeway drive with empty tank and did 50-65 mph fine (mostly flat).
The brakes did very well (different with 500 gallons in back) but I stayed my distance and not much stop & go.
Although it has faded paint, I drove I-5 freeway to Edmonds for the 4th of July Parade and took great joy when I came up behind another fire truck (in mint condition) being towed behind a large diesel Dodge.
I continued to pass him with my old Stude and gave the siren and lights a spin so he knew what fun I was having.

Even if you are able to enjoy the drive at 50 mph, there doesn't seem to be a hurry when your having fun.

James

The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

[studelark]

[quote]Originally posted by Bellingham Studenut

I have driven our M16 Fire Truck on a 100 and a 200 mile freeway drive with empty tank and did 50-65 mph fine (mostly flat).
The brakes did very well (different with 500 gallons in back) but I stayed my distance and not much stop & go.

I continued to pass him... so he knew what fun I was having.

Even if you are able to enjoy the drive at 50 mph, there doesn't seem to be a hurry when you're having fun.

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Thanks for that, B Studenut! Driving an M16 properly set up equipment-wise and is in excellent mechanical condition will not self destruct at 50-60 mph. Granted, one would not want to do this with a 500 gallon load as even the best era brakes would be marginal. But they are a lot of fun!! Long live M series and long live Studebaker fire trucks.

In contrast, let me relate this story told to me by the mechanic who serviced the Earle, Iowa 1946 M16 fire truck from new through 1951. This truck is presently owned by Gary Hearn (guido) of Richmond, VA. The truck presently has only 2300+ original miles registered.

The Earle fire department was in desperate need of new equipment at the end of WWII. Earle is a small town, but amazingly, at that time had several new car/truck dealerships. They approached each dealership for a new truck chassis. Most responses were in the negative-new trucks were difficult to get. The local Studebaker dealer, Parkin Motors, was able to find a new 1946 M16-52 cab and chassis for them. A purchase was made and a home-built 300 gallon body was installed and the fire truck was put in service. This truck was a bare-bones unit, no heavy duty equipment, with standard brakes, standard drive train (without the 2 speed rear axle).

I asked the elderly mechanic if the fire department ever used the truck because it had so few miles on it. He laughed as he said, "You know, that Studebaker was so slow getting up to speed with a load on it and by the time they got to a fire, they'd hit the brakes and they would go flying by the fire!! By the time they'd git turned around and pulled up to the fire, it was all over. So they didn't use it very often." He also added the firemen bought a new 1951 Ford F-6 fire truck to replace the Studebaker, but he said, "You know that Ford wasn't any better!"

Have a good day, Friends.

Frank Drumheller
Louisa, VA
60S-W6
1948 M16-52 Boyer fire truck

[studelark]

[quote]Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

The M16 was built to haul (slowly). The Commander 6 was the biggest engine Studebaker had then, but it was small relative to the size of the truck and the loads it had to carry. For this reason, the truck was geared REAL low.

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This statement by Dick is very true for light and medium duty trucks during this era. These trucks were relatively slow and underpowered as opposed to the experiences for most of us who are used to more modern trucks. Studebaker was in the middle of the mix with its Commander Six engine during the M series life span. Horsepower ratings both pre- and post-WWII for mainline light and medium rated American trucks were:
Chevrolet- 90 hp
Dodge- 92 hp for the standard six, 99 hp on it's optional engine
Ford V8- 85 hp for the standard eight, 95 hp on it's optional engine
International- 82 hp on the standard six, 85hp on it's big six
Reo- 83 hp
Studebaker- 94

Most of these trucks used the same transmissions and rear axles (including the 2 speed rears). During the life-time of the M series, the M16 held it's own with the competition in pulling power, road speed, load capacity and braking power. Real changes began in the 1947 model year and this is where Studebaker, especially in the medium duty line, began to fall behind the others mechanically, not style-wise, of course.

My whole point here is that trucks of the M series class were never meant to be fast, highway cruisers with good handling and braking characteristics. They were work horses, 100%. As someone has pointed out, take your time and enjoy a little piece of history.

Frank Drumheller
Louisa, VA
60S-W6
1948 M16-52 Boyer fire truck