Old Car Hobby Future

[56sghor]

I exchange newsletters with about 20 Packard editors. One I received a few days ago, The Packardian, had an article regarding the future of the Packard Automobile Club of Australia. The major concern was the advanced age of most hobbyists, and the lack of young people getting into the hobby. This is a problem that most if not all, old car clubs are facing, including SDC. This is nothing new, and I think most of us are aware of the situation. When I decided to sell my two Studebakers because of age, medical issues, and the shrinking buyer pool for cars that only old people care about, I concluded selling was the best option for me.

I think this article by PACA president Stephen Guest offers an accurate assessment. I've posted it on the 56J web site at:

https://1956goldenhawk.com/The%20Pac...r%202022-o.pdf

[mbstude]

A little more than a decade ago, I was vending at the York Swap Meet. Being a 20 year old kid selling Studebaker parts, I lost count of the "Look! A young guy into Studebakers!" comments. Jerry Kurtz and I were talking about it and he just laughed.. He told me, "You know, I was a teenager when I first became active in antique car clubs in the 1960's. I remember all of the old guys worrying themselves to no end about how the younger generations will never be interested in old cars. It's been 50 years and people are still going on about it."

My take as someone who isn't an old guy:

Enjoy the hobby. Have fun. Don't worry about it beyond that.

[BobPalma]

One of Steve's points is easy to address and I hope happens to Packard Clubs in the 'states as well: That of combining two clubs.

I don't know what has become of Packards International, which I believe is the smaller of the two national Packard Clubs and is headquartered in California(?), but I would hope they and the principals of the larger Packard Automobile Club of America, of which I have been an active member since 1992, would see fit to bury whatever hatchet there was decades ago and combine forces.

One of the unfortunate realities of the huge, successful Packard 100th Anniversary National Meet in Warren OH was the non-appearance of the contemporary Packard prototype that was supposedly running and driving but remained not far away in Cleveland due to some internal club strife I never understood...and still don't. (That 100th-anniversary celebration attracted a confirmed roster of more than 1,000 Packard automobiles -and a few of Packard s brutish trucks- certain to be a world record in one place never to be equaled. I drove our 1956 Clipper Super Hardtop to the event while Dad and Mom followed in their late-model Buick.

I set them up, Dad being a former Packard dealer, in a shady spot on show day with signage beside the Clipper. Dad had a wonderful day holding court with passers-by who were excited to be able to talk to one of what were about five living Packard dealers at the time, although Dad might have been the only one in attendance. To the best of my knowledge, all of them have since passed away. To her dying day this past April 16, Mother said attending that event was a high point of her and Dad's last quarter-century or so one the panet.)

Anyway, thankfully, Studebaker aficionados crossed that bridge decades ago when the Studebaker Automobile Society on the West Coast (someone correct me if I am wrong on that club's title) finally threw in the towel and the principals of that club -or at least enough members- rejoined The Studebaker Drivers Club to make it the stronger organization it has become. Internal strife(s) inevitably result from someone's nose getting bent out of shape to the extent that too many personalities lose sight of The Big Picture, that of promoting their common marque.

This is unfortunate and, hopefully, can (and will) be addressed by other organizations as the collector-car world ticks off the next 50 years. That's because internal threats to our hobby are minuscule compared to external threats of members of the general populace who would just as soon see any ICE-powered vehicle more than 10 years old (or pick your number) baled and repackaged as electricity-powered mobility pods with all the visual excitement of an over-ripe banana. (See Also: The stuck-up California Prom Queen -or whatever title she had- who got too much press for refusing to ride on a 1963 Impala convertible(???) in a parade some time ago because she didn't want to be seen "riding in a polluting old car." Some people's children...)

Please, folks; let's keep our eye on that bigger ball! BP

[Buzzard]

Well spoken, Bob. I am with you 100%!
Bill
PS: The only way anyone will get me into an EV is if one is the hearse at my demise.

[56sghor]

"the Studebaker Automobile Society on the West Coast (someone correct me if I am wrong on that club's title)"

I joined in 1981, got this membership card, and never heard from them again. I guess I must be a lifetime member.

[Guido]

Anyway, thankfully, Studebaker aficionados crossed that bridge decades ago when the Studebaker Automobile Society on the West Coast (someone correct me if I am wrong on that club's title) finally threw in the towel and the principals of that club -or at least enough members- rejoined The Studebaker Drivers Club to make it the stronger organization it has become.

As noted above, it was the Studebaker Automobile Club of America. It was not just a west coast thing, I was the District Governor of Virginia in the mid 1970’s (while simultaneously being a SDC member). I think I still have stationary somewhere.

[56sghor]

I wonder how many SDCers are in the 80s, as compared to how many are in their 30s?

Hey mbstude, in 50 years, you'll be my age, and you may be the only SDC member left. Please remember to update the roster!!!

[PeterHawk]

Well said Bob. Your comments could/should apply to the chasm that exists between SDC and AOIA and ASC. While I was serving as President, SDC I tried to repair the burnt bridges but was mistakenly advised I did not have the authority to pursue that objective. To this day I regret my decision to give up the fight.

[Hallabutt]

Just the other day I responded to a thread on the AACA forum regarding a similar refrain. I didn't want to rewrite the whole text so I'm going to try to copy what I wrote.
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Posted November 15
I used to think that young people would never respond to our old American iron. I reasoned that it must be so because when I went to the larger car meets you could count the number of younger attendees on a couple of hands. Then I, out of self defense, joined the Studebaker Addicts, Facebook forum. I quickly realized that it wasn't the cars that the young people didn't like, it was the organization that went with it. I thought back to my youth and remembered the rebellion of the people my age against the establishment. Very few young people want to hang out with their grandparents, and certainly not for any length of time. IMHO the car clubs will only survive until the last of the Baby Boomers are gone.



As I mentioned in another thread, I found that social media is the one place that we old timers can communicate with young people. It provides a filter against all the differences that may exist between multiple generations. Anonymity replaces the human interactions of people and reduces it to it's most basic common denominator, the car.



Some observations that resonated with me. For starters pre-war cars seem to have no interest to most newbies. They are as dead as last night's beer. Size seems to be another limiting factor-the bigger they are the harder they fall. Another take away is that styling does matter, but not necessarily as we understand it. Speaking in the context of Studebaker-the unusual body styles of the 50's does appeal to new people. What surprised me was how the young have taken to the little, squared off, compact, Lark. From the Lark's genesis the styling always seemed like a step backwards. It would take decades for me to accept them into my collection, and then only because they were such good driving cars. The compacts, like the Lark, seem to be much more in keeping with what they grew up with and can relate to. It seems to me that the die has been cast. We have as much to learn as they do. We can teach, but only if we learn to listen.

[rockne10]

...members of the general populace who would just as soon see any ICE-powered vehicle more than 10 years old (or pick your number) baled and repackaged as electricity-powered mobility pods with all the visual excitement of an over-ripe banana.

A bit over-melodramatic at the very least.
No doubt there is a small but vocal contingent who would like to have all ICE vehicles crushed and shredded, but an even more miniscule group would extend that to the collectable market.
The goal today is to phase in the EV vehicles and phase out the PRODUCTION OF NEW ICE vehicles; not to make the existing ones disappear; especially in the collector market.
I think, as many of us get older, and have added to the quantity of restored vehicles, we may find the market with reduced value as the cost of refined gasoline will eventually go through the roof, as the cost of electricity plummets, or is even domestically produced in our own homes; but our ICE vehicles will forever be of interest to the historically minded.
Smaller clubs, but even more determined and fanatical.

[56sghor]

I remember all of the old guys worrying themselves to no end about how the younger generations will never be interested in old cars. It's been 50 years and people are still going on about it."
.

Getting back to the original subject, the big difference is that 50 years ago, there were plenty of 20, 30, and 40 somethings entering the hobby, to take up the slack when the 70, 80, and 90 year olds had to drop out. That is not the case today. In our local SDC chapter, one person is in his late 50s. Everyone else is over 70. The local AACA club is in the same situation.

Theoretically, we should have had a built in farm system, with our kids following in our footsteps, but in most cases, they simply don't share the same interest as their parent.

[markindy]

I still have hope for the hobby. I have a neighbor, just a few doors down the street, with a son who is turning 16. His son is looking at an older Mazda Miata as his first car, but it has a manual transmission. The dad is not a car guy, but likes that the Miata only has space for one other person, and isn't overly powerful. Dad has no idea how to drive a manual car. Over a few beers, I agreed to teach BOTH of them how drive a stick. Yes...I will even let them drive my older cars, once they get the hang of it. Why?...because that's how you spark interest...and cars are meant to be driven.
As far as EV's go...I'm all for it. To be sure, gasoline will become more expensive, and the hobby will face some change. I'm sure many that many owners of Studebaker carriages were lamenting the loss of stables and feed stores. By all means...let's mend those old bridges and build a few new ones.

[BobPalma]

I still have hope for the hobby. I have a neighbor, just a few doors down the street, with a son who is turning 16. His son is looking at an older Mazda Miata as his first car, but it has a manual transmission. The dad is not a car guy, but likes that the Miata only has space for one other person, and isn't overly powerful. Dad has no idea how to drive a manual car. Over a few beers, I agreed to teach BOTH of them how drive a stick. Yes...I will even let them drive my older cars, once they get the hang of it. Why?...because that's how you spark interest...and cars are meant to be driven.

Mark: 'Good meeting you at Mike Baker's meet...and congrats on that '55 Commander. Had I bought it sight unseen, I would have been happy to see it when it arrived, or I went to pick it up.

If your friend's 16-YO son is looking at an older Miata, be sure to confirm the battery condition before purchase.

I found out the hard way, at least at the time, that earlier Miatas had a battery you could only buy at a Mazda dealership...and believe me, as expensive as it was (I had already bought the car for my cousin, who wanted one, and we knew the battery was bad when I bought it), I looked high and low for a battery for that car before biting the bullet and shelling out for a new, genuine Mazda battery...which was about twice the price I thought a battery ought to cost for the car!

Hopefully, that has changed by now as that was quite some time ago...but forewarned is forearmed...a 16-YO doesn't want to get hit with a surprise like that!

Best. BP

[J_Cole]

I think there are a few things happening and it has less to do with "the hobby is dying" but more to do with the "hobby is changing." As someone who's a few days from turning 40 and a millennial, our age bracket isn't particularly interested in joining clubs. When i was in college and grad school from 2001-2008 in Tampa, one of my economics professors was a consultant at several country clubs in the area. And he used a lot of those examples in our classes and how clubs as a whole were dying even back then. He used to try and make the clubs open their doors to everyone or else he insisted they'd be dying and over time, one died off after the next. He also brought up a restaurant that opened up near downtown Tampa that was basically a club where you had to pay membership fees. And he predicted they'd not last more than a year or two and they didn't last that long even. How many clubs have basically failed, or have greatly reduced numbers now versus 10-20-50 years ago? Elks Clubs. Car Clubs? Country Clubs? the list is endless, why pay for the right to join something when you can go to a golf course or restaurant or the internet and get things for free? Or why join a car club when you go to a weekly all makes and models car show or cars and coffee and get emersed in all sorts of makes and models all at once?

When I was in grad school, i was about to start a race car country club. I had two partners, and we were in the process of looking for land and were in talks to hire an accountant and lawyer to help us formalize the plans. I had two people ready to join despite the $150,000 admittance fee we were going to charge. I asked my professor if he'd be willing to help consult for us and he flat out refused and said it was a failing business model and he didn't want any part of it. I was so upset, i had really respected him up until that point. Ultimately the recession in 2008-2010 killed off the idea and while other clubs have really gained traction, they've had to really adapt and add tons of services that we hadn't wanted to add to ours to stay viable.

The other thing that has really changed the need for car clubs is the internet. We don't "need" swap meets. We don't "need" clubs to get information from. We can go on google and find tens and thousands of answers at the touch of our fingertips. Growing up in South Bend in the 80's and 90's, i saw how political the Stude club was. In the mid 2000s, a friend bought a C6 Corvette and tried to join the local Corvette club with her husband. They were quickly shunned for not having the "right" Corvette and for being much younger than the other members. They might be the only people I hang out with on a regular basis that tried to join a club and it lasted a few weeks at best. I've made some wonderful friends in the Studebaker world and have met some great people because of my Studebakers. From going to MCACN, to going to local cars and coffee events, to just driving them around the city, it's been tremendous. I've met some great people online and in person. I'm in the Studebaker drivers club and get Turning Wheels and have talked to a couple local guys about getting the Atlantic Stude chapter up and running again. But it's never gotten further than idle chatter.

The hobby is changing, but it's not dying. I doubt Matt would have banked his financial future on buying half of Stephen Allens if he thought the hobby was dying off. And i'm having my original '54 Commander hot rodded by Craig and Garvin Piper. Garvin is early to mid 30's, and already is talking about inheriting the family business from his dad and wanting to find a successor to the business, meaning he plans on staying in business for 30-45 more years. I am also about to spend an ungodly amount of money on a very very special '53 Commander and building a '54 custom, hoping my money spent doesn't disappear overnight.

I asked Jim Lime about this a few years ago and how business was going and if he saw younger people joining the hobby. And he said yes, there are younger people joining and his son works there and hopes to one day step up in the future. There are younger people wherever you look in the Stude community, even if the notion of a club is going away. Look at values of 90's Japanese cars.... Look at auction results on BringATrailer, the hobby is strong.

The most important thing we can do is share the cars and hobby with the younger generations. I was talking to 8E45E about this the other day at MCACN and how he was showing his truck to a mother and father and their small kid. And how the parents repeated over and over and over again to the child to not touch it and how Craig had the kid get in the car. And how the parents continued to insist to their child to not touch it or anything and how proud they were at themselves for teaching their kid to not touch it. And Craig was like you're doing more harm than good. You should be teaching to them to respect it, but he was standing there and the parents were standing there and how the kid wasn't going to break anything. But the kid will walk away traumatized, that old cars are fragile and will break and are better left alone. If we are sharing the cars with the younger generations and giving rides and letting them experience them, then the hobby will long continue. Gary Wood gave me a ride in his Private Messages Avanti at the Studebaker Internatioal Meet and I walked away wanting one. I gave my 22 year old cousin a ride in S2D this summer and he walked away not only understanding the appeal better, he now wants a classic car of some sort, Studebaker or not.

[mbstude]

Justin... I agree with 100% of what you wrote. Well said.

It's a funny thing.. There's a local street rod / antique car club here that has a monthly cruise-in. I've attended a handful of times with a Studebaker and 9 times out of 10, nobody even acknowledges me. I'm not in their "clique" so I usually get the cold shoulder, and most all of the attendees are at least 40 years older than I am. The general attitude from that crowd hasn't made me want to go back and I'm sure that club will be dried up within the next decade.

Like you, I also attend the local monthly Cars & Coffee gatherings. There aren't any club affiliations, just a bunch of people that like all types of cars. It's typically a younger crowd and, surprisingly to me, my '53 Commander gets a lot of positive attention amongst the Subarus and Teslas. A lot of guys in their late teens and early 20's walk up and know exactly what my car is, but usually say they've never seen one in person. Telling them about how the 3 speed overdrive transmission works, and the starter button under the clutch, and the weird carburetor with the 90 degree air inlet... It's all very different from what they're used to and most seem to have a genuine curiosity about it.

When I was a little kid growing up in this hobby, the moments I remember most from going to car shows and SDC meets are the ones where guys let me sit in their cars, and when I got a little older, even drive them. All of those experiences made lasting impressions and I make sure to do the same with my own cars now. There's nothing more exciting to me about going to a car show than seeing some little kid's face light up when he gets to sit in the driver's seat of a cool old Studebaker.

If the SDC (and any other car club) wants to survive and adapt to the changing hobby going forward, the question that the clubs need to be asking is, "What can we offer our members, and potential new ones, that can't be had elsewhere?" Nobody seems to have the answer. It's gonna take more than a t-shirt with "We Invented Cool" printed on it.