58 Hawk what to do?

[58Hawk6cyl]

I have a 1958 silver hawk with 28,087.9 miles on it. It is all original with no rust and 1 repaint
my problem is that it is a 6cyl auto and is no fun to drive
I am at s crossroad as a front wheel cylinder has gone bad. So I am thinking of bulding a hot rod.
Lots of people tell me I shouldnt so I am putting it up for trade. If you really think it should be kept original, time to put up
I want a tasteful hot rod of a 53 to 60 hawk. Willing to trade up or down depending on the car

[RadioRoy]

Welcome to the forum.

If you do not mind answering some questions...

Have you been happy with the car so far before the wheel cylinder went bad?

A bad wheel cylinder is putting you "at a crossroads?" Does that mean that you are not mechanically inclined, or was it just the last straw in a string of mechanical setbacks?

Building a hot rod takes a LOT of talent, tools, space, knowledge, and hard work. Do you have the ability to do it?

Your opinion of tasteful might not match the ideas of the builder. Hot Rods are generally reflective of the builder's specific tastes.

Or, if you buy a hot rod, do you have the ability to maintain/repair it?

[Dan White]

Why not swap out the 6 for a Studebaker V8. Will fit in with very little work.

[Bob Andrews]

This is the bright side of most Studebakers: they will never be worth very high money one way or another. That means, go ahead and upgrade it however you like, with any changes you want, and enjoy it. Just make peace for the fact that as a six-cylinder automatic it doesn’t have a very high value; and if you modify it, you may be in the same boat. Or, done right, it will come out to be worth more than completely stock.

In my opinion, modify away and enjoy. One last caveat: don’t make the common mistake of starting a modification and then find out you don’t have the skills or the money to finish it, and turning a running car into a basket case, when it will be worth next to nothing.

[6hk71400]

This is the bright side of most Studebakers: they will never be worth very high money one way or another. That means, go ahead and upgrade it however you like, with any changes you want, and enjoy it. Just make peace for the fact that as a six-cylinder automatic it doesn’t have a very high value; and if you modify it, you may be in the same boat. Or, done right, it will come out to be worth more than completely stock.

In my opinion, modify away and enjoy. One last caveat: don’t make the common mistake of starting a modification and then find out you don’t have the skills or the money to finish it, and turning a running car into a basket case, when it will be worth next to nothing.

I agree 100 percent. Be honest with your self as to what you can and cannot do. If you have not joined SDC, do that right away and then your local chapter. Someone may want a low mileage car just for the sake of an mostly original car regardless of power plant. Put it up for sale and see what you can do. In the meantime, look around.

For example, there is a 1954 Commander C Coupe with an overdrive. The owner cannot care for it. I have not seen the car but I can go and take pictures. It is a running driving car. He wants $4000 OBO.

Good luck and keep us posted

Bob Miles
First Studebaker in 1968 and last one in 2022

[58Hawk6cyl]

I am a life long enthusiast that has built many cars. I currently have a 33 Ford 5 window coupe a 62 corvette and a 68 Shelby Gt500 All award winning cars I do most of my own work and since I am close have had the car to 2 Studebaker national events

The car is just fine. It is slow and not fun to drive due to its low power and small brakes
I very much understand that rare and expensive
are two different words for a reason

I am at a crossroads because I am either going to fix it for trade or modify it

many people have told me not to due to its condition so letting those people have a chance before I do the irreversible of modifying it

[Dwight FitzSimons]

I am a life long enthusiast that has built many cars. I currently have a 33 Ford 5 window coupe a 62 corvette and a 68 Shelby Gt500 All award winning cars I do most of my own work and since I am close have had the car to 2 Studebaker national events

The car is just fine. It is slow and not fun to drive due to its low power and small brakes
I very much understand that rare and expensive
are two different words for a reason

I am at a crossroads because I am either going to fix it for trade or modify it

many people have told me not to due to its condition so letting those people have a chance before I do the irreversible of modifying it

At the least upgrade those brakes. A 6-cyl Hawk will go just as fast going downhill as a V8 car. The V8 drum brakes (11" front, 10" rear), from a '54 - up Studebaker, will bolt right on. When properly set up they work well.

A Studebaker 289 or 259 would be an easy swap, as would a SB Chevy engine. Either will make the Hawk much more fun to drive.

--Dwight

[J_Cole]

I'm faced with the same dilemma. My 54 Commander had the engine go bad recently, it's got an older repaint but is a Northern California car and zero rust from new. It's numbers matching and I doubt the engine has ever been out of the car. But 127 HP and a two speed auto is a total dog, 0-60 was accomplished in 17 seconds new. Today, new cars are almost all under 10 and many are well under 4 as we move to electric. I have heartburn over modifying an original car but at the end of the day I want to drive it and enjoy it. And driving it around modern traffic will in all likelihood mean yanking out that 232 and putting in a different engine and transmission. I'm thinking supercharged 259 would do nicely 😀

good luck with your decision and make something you want. As Bob said, the studes aren't worth what the big 3 are worth and modified studes tend to bring way bigger numbers than all original cars (but more money spend building them as well).

[sweetolbob]

Bob and Dwight have summed it up well. I'll add that if you like the car other than the power and brakes, quit listening to "people". The choice is yours.

I'm an SBC guy so my opinion is pretty straight forward, SBC (power level will be dictated by what you intend to do with the rest of the drive train) and Turner brakes, or other options, to get discs on the front for stopping and cost effectiveness. I'd also rebuild the front suspension.

If it were mine, I'd go LS and overdrive transmission and upgrade the rear end if it's not a Dana 44.

Bob

[PackardV8]

Sixty years of experience has taught me one can buy a nice driver today for much less than the time, effort and money to build the same car.

jack vines

[Dwight FitzSimons]

I'm faced with the same dilemma. My 54 Commander had the engine go bad recently, it's got an older repaint but is a Northern California car and zero rust from new. It's numbers matching and I doubt the engine has ever been out of the car. But 127 HP and a two speed auto is a total dog, 0-60 was accomplished in 17 seconds new. Today, new cars are almost all under 10 and many are well under 4 as we move to electric. I have heartburn over modifying an original car but at the end of the day I want to drive it and enjoy it. And driving it around modern traffic will in all likelihood mean yanking out that 232 and putting in a different engine and transmission. I'm thinking supercharged 259 would do nicely 😀

good luck with your decision and make something you want. As Bob said, the studes aren't worth what the big 3 are worth and modified studes tend to bring way bigger numbers than all original cars (but more money spend building them as well).

That's a nice looking '54 (other than being the special short-nose, long-back edition). It deserves a more powerful engine. There are a number of rebuildable R1 engines out there looking for a home. An R1 will beat an R2 up to about 30 MPH and will be more appropriate in most driving situations. A supercharger will add more mid- and upper-mid-range thrill, if that's what you want. Personally, I rarely "open up" my R2 Avanti anymore.

--Dwight

[J_Cole]

Thanks!! I'm not sure why the aspect ratio looks so goofy on the picture, i'd never noticed until until you said something :-) I've never driven an R1 or R2 powered car and I briefly had a 259 powered car but with 224 heads (no idea why), so not sure i've driven a "real" 259 either. An R1 would be a lot of fun and make way more power than the 232. I paid last year to have the car totally rewired but left it 6V as I was hoping to keep the car as original as possible but then the engine failed and kind of blew up my plans. So that's my only concern, how much engine can 6V handle. I really don't want to have the car re-rewired again....

[64studeavanti]

How about fixing the wheel cylinder, sell the car, and buy something you would like?

[gjamesk]

"So that's my only concern, how much engine can 6V handle."

I just completed replacing the original 232 in my 6 volt '52 with a '64 259. It starts every time and everything works as expected. All wiring had been replaced previously, and I ran a ground cable from the battery directly to the starter. I suppose it might be an issue with a high compression 289?

[J_Cole]

thanks for that, that is what I was thinking as well. The 289 might have too much compression for a 6V :-( I've heard 259's are a little smoother and want to rev more than a 289 which might be fun. I'm considering moving to Phoenix and air con is going to be super important too, i guess there is a way to run air con on 6V and don't want to get too carried away where the car won't work at all...

[StudeRich]

gJamesK: <More Readable THIS Way!

HIGH Compression?? Only about ONE Point higher than a '55 6 Volt 259 V8.

Is it just an ordinary 289 with 8.5 to 1 Compression, or something else like an Avanti R1 289 with 10.25 to 1 ?

That should not be a problem if the Battery is fairly Fresh & has decent AMP, Rating; CA, CCA, and is kept fully charged.
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J_Cole: In YOUR case: with all new wiring, it will be easy to just rewire and Replace the Solenoid and it's "Start" Wire, add a Resisted "Run" Wire to the Coil, add a "Start" Ign. Sw. and reuse all the better, Heavy Gauge 6 Volt wiring!
Then you can add an Alternator if you wish & modify the Generator Wires.

To change from Positive Ground to Negative, you only need to Reverse the Coil wires and Batt. Cables.
Of course you also know, that all the 6 Volt components, bulbs etc. can easily be changed to Hawk 12 Volt Parts, I would just leave the Horns and change the Relay.

You WILL appreciate the extra TORQUE of the 289 right where you need it, at the bottom end, if you add A/C.
NO Super Charger, just TOO many hard to find Parts to gather and beyond Expensive!
With A/C it would be a cluttered Mess.

Sure a couple people Have done it, and with enough $ it can be made pretty, but still TOO much to maintain, work on etc, with as much room to work as a New Honda.

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Whew! LOTS of Posters on this One Thread!

58Hawk6Cyl: Just do what makes YOU Happy!

[J_Cole]

You might be my new hero! I didn’t want to rewire the whole car but if this is possible, It gives me something to think about and opens the door to what I really want!

[58Hawk6cyl]

Modify it is
Thanks for all the input