Packard Hawk

[GTHEMI62]

I found a complete '58 Packard Hawk yesterday. It is really rough and needs total restoration. The dash is in very good condition, stainless trim is complete and dent free, front bumper is dent free. Fiberglass hood is excellent including scoop. Nose cone is cracked, but easily repairable. Packard letters, minus the "D" are on the car. Steering wheel is crack free with horn ring. Engine turns and has super charger. I hate to see it go to the crusher, but to save it I would need to find a good rolling chassis. Can anyone tell me where I might find one and what it would cost? Car is on a trailer, so I could not get serial number, but know it is one of only 588 produced. The owner also has a '57 Golden Hawk parts car that he will include with the Packard. Don't want to see this unique car disappear so I'm looking for some help. Thanks.

[Lark Hunter]

Why the worry about the car crusher? Is there one gnawing on the steel fence this car is parked behind right now, waiting to lunge at the Packard when no one is looking?

I'm not really up to snuff on my Hawk knowledge, but I thought there were some changes between 1957 and 58 to facilitate changing from a two piece driveshaft to a one piece. I presume the frame is rotted out on this one? You just missed out on a Packard Hawk listed on eBay in New York, which might have been a good parts donor, then sold on. The price seemed a bit steep, but it looks like the seller accepted a best offer. Do you have any pictures of this car? Those are always helpful

[GTHEMI62]

Attaching photos of the Packard Hawk. Any help is appreciated.

[6hk71400]

There were several changes between 1957 and 1958. The two major engineering changes were the floor pan to accomidate the one piece driveshaft on the 1958 and a longer tail on the transmission. Also, the spring mounting on the rear axle was changed and the spring position was moved from the center to 3 inches forward making a difference in ride and handling. All 58 to 64 Hawks have this arrangement and earlier cars will not fit.

With any car, especially a Studebaker, it all depends on price, condition, and how much you are willing to spend without an expectation of return. Based on todays current market, plus having to procure just the parts you mention you need, plan on at least an outlay of 50-60k or more. Most of that depends on how much you can do and how much you have to pay to have done. Then include the price of the car.

I will ask that others chime in. My 50-60k figure could easily be double. Also depending on your home situation, how much time can you spend in the garage versus time the family might like to see your smile. If you make 400K per year this might be possible.

Just because a car is rare does not mean it is popular. I have a 1957 2 door President that they made 868 but a number one sparkly shiny car would probably only bring realistically 12K, and that would be someone that absolutely wanted to have one. The value guide list that car at 18K but I would have to put down the crack pipe if I thought I could get that.

Bob Miles
Not wearing beer googles on this one

[E. Davis]

I agree with Bob Miles on this one. It would be a real money pit to completely restore and then you would be lucky to get back half of your investment when you want to sell it. Packard Hawks, while unique, are not really high on the collector list.

[Jessie J.]

Sad but true. You could possibly buy two decent and drivable Packard Hawks for less than the cost of restoring one in this deplorable condition. Same holds true of almost any unpopular low production, low demand vehicle.
These South Bend Ferrari's are NOT Ferrari's. Now days you will be both money and TIME ahead to just borrow 100k and buy the best one that you can find. Most of their owners are well on in years and seldom drive these garage treasures.
$$$$$ talks. And it speaks loudest to widows stuck with the disposing of their husbands automotive treasures.

[GTHEMI62]

Thanks for the input. I had made an initial estimate of out of pocket costs of 40-45K, as I can do most of the mechanical and bodywork myself, but did not know the changes you outlined between the 57 and 58 models. My first instinct when I looked at the car was this may not be a realistic project and the cost to restore would out way any restored value. First impressions are usually fairly accurate. I will probably pass on this one. The 57 Golden Hawk parts car that comes with the Packard is in much worse condition and would provide only a few salvageable parts.

[PackardV8]

It's interesting that because horse/camel trading is in our genes, some think a hobby car must make economic sense. There are many hobbies which cost big bucks and are 100% net loss.

When discussing the value of my Studebakers versus the cost of building them, a friend commented on Studes being a money-losing car. He's a golfer and a couple of years ago took a golf vacation with three friends and played all the courses in Hawaii. I told him, "My estimate is that trip cost you $10,000. How much did you get back when you went to sell it?"

Another friend is a mountain climber. He has thousands of dollars of gear and each of his expeditions costs thousands of dollars. How much does he get back when he sells those trips?

A friend is a biker. He always has at least three carbon fiber and titanium bicycles, each costing $10,000 or more. He rides them a couple of years and is lucky if he can get $3,000 - $4,000 when he sells them to buy the next new whiz-bang.

If one wants a Packard Hawk, buy it or build it and enjoy it as long as it's fun. Sell it and don't look back.

jack vines

[6hk71400]

It's interesting that because horse/camel trading is in our genes, some think a hobby car must make economic sense. There are many hobbies which cost big bucks and are 100% net loss.

When discussing the value of my Studebakers versus the cost of building them, a friend commented on Studes being a money-losing car. He's a golfer and a couple of years ago took a golf vacation with three friends and played all the courses in Hawaii. I told him, "My estimate is that trip cost you $10,000. How much did you get back when you went to sell it?"

Another friend is a mountain climber. He has thousands of dollars of gear and each of his expeditions costs thousands of dollars. How much does he get back when he sells those trips?

A friend is a biker. He has three bicycles, each costing $10,000 or more. He rides them a couple of years and is lucky if he can get $3,000 - $4,000 when he sells them to buy the next new whiz-bang.

If one wants a Packard Hawk, buy it or build it and enjoy it as long as it's fun. Sell it and don't look back.

jack vines

Jack,

We have both commented several times about this. I really don't disagree with you on this. I guess my point is I have never made any money nor do I expect to on a Studebaker except one, a 1956 Golden Hawk that paid for my daughter's wedding. It does not make economic sense but I keep buying fixing and selling cars for what reason that is mine.

I am now in a different position now than I have been in the past 39 years. At this point, I will make provisions in my will as to my Studebakers. I just wrote what I wrote to Fred because I have many times in the past picked up a project that was too much to finish for me. After Fred wrote about what his background and cost estimates, I would say have at it. Any 58-62 Hawk chassis would work for him and with his ability to build the car makes a hugh difference.

Fred, If you like this car and it's unique position as far as the last car(s) to wear the Packard nameplate, do as Jack says, fix it up and enjoy the Heck out of it. You will probably never see one at a car show and be prepared to answer lots of questions.

Bob Miles
It's a hobby, not a lifestyle (or maybe it is)

[J_Cole]

I totally agree with Jack on this one. I accidentally deleted my post before hitting send so I hope I got it all this time. The Packard Hawks are listed by Hagerty at 61k for #1’s and 41k for #2’s. Most of the body panels should be available through classic enterprises. And you’d have the coolest car at your local shows. Packard Hawks are indeed rare and specialty but Golden Hawks are as well and have brought serious serious money at auction lately for nicely restored cars. I think one just sold on bringatrailer for 42k and it wasn’t the nicest example ever. Some of the major auction houses have sold others for 75k plus.

hobbies aren’t investments and ROI shouldn’t apply. If I hadn’t just spent close to 65-70k on two 54’s I’d have probably made an offer on the even worse one that sold on eBay last week. The hardest part about the build might be finding a correct interior BUT there’s no law about making it your own or using different materials. I say go for it, you’d have an awesome car when done. And I can also help put you in touch with a couple Packard guys who have high dollar 40s packards and might be a good source of info for all things packard (I’m sure there are a few here and there is a Packard hawk Facebook group as well who can provide a ton of help).

best of luck and have fun with it. But the notion that these cars will plummet in value is not true from what I’ve been offered for mine. And if you can do work yourself, you’re way ahead of the game financially anyway. Best of luck!

[Chris Pile]

There is a new SDC member in the Wichita, KS area with a very nice restored Packard Hawk.

[GTHEMI62]

Thanks guys. Lots to consider for sure. I have not had any luck regarding the chassis so far and with out that, cutting and fabricating portions of the existing frame is one thing I cannot do. It is funny how things come around in life. Back in the 80's when I got my first project Studebaker, a GT Hawk, I looked at a Packard Hawk that was for sale and passed on it in favor of the GT because the Packard was missing the super charger. So here I am nearly 40 years later vacillating over another one. Your input is very helpful. I have long ago realized that restoring Studebakers is not a for profit venture. Like most of us, I do it because I love Studebakers. If I get off the fence and decide to go for it, I'll let you know.

[Dwight FitzSimons]

There is a '63 Hawk parts car for sale near here (assuming it hasn't sold). It is stored indoors, and I looked at it, but didn't pay much attention to it as I didn't need it. It was mostly complete, including the engine. "Here" is central Virginia, specifically Fishersville, VA. That is right on I-64. The price was $500. If you want I can check on it or send you the phone number of the seller.
-Dwight

[GTHEMI62]

Thanks for the tip on the 63 parts car Dwight. After reconsidering what is going to be required to rebuild the Packard Hawk, I have decided to pass on it and look for a less challenging project. If someone else is interested in it, I can get contact info to them. I appreciate the input from everyone.

[stude1964]

I have a rot-free '64 GT frame here in PA.
Rob in PA.