Is this a Lionel Stone R4 intake? Updated with pics.

[gordr]

Just picked up a small load of Studebaker parts. A couple of 289 cranks, both short and long snout, some gaskets, and small parts, and a dual 4-barrel manifold, with one WCFB on it. The firing order is complete, not missing the last "2", and it has a casting number: 1555811, with a "J" above that. A Studebaker intake gasket fits most of the ports perfectly. Except #1 and #7. Those parts are taller than all the rest. Did Lionel make repop R4 manifolds with ports sized for normal 289 heads, and then maybe someone tried to open out 2 ports?

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Lionel Stone did make aluminum intake manifolds with ports sized for both R1/R2 heads as well as manifolds sized for R3/R4 heads. I know this is true for the single-4-bbl manifolds, but don't know about the 2-4bbl manifolds. Two AFBs on an 289 or R1 would have been over-carbureted to the point of not running well at all except at wide-open throttle.

Doesn't the WCFB have a narrower bolt pattern than the AFB?
-Dwight

[stude1964]

Well the CFB's might work but if the secondaries aren't bored larger for the AFB's all bets are off as you probably know!
Rob in PA,

[candbstudebakers]

Yes he did have the 2X4 manifolds in both sizes, when I was dealing with Lionel I had a chance to get at least one of every thing he had reproduced. I was supplying him with a lot of old parts he needed, 289 cranks, pans, cams,blocks, heads, and we just swapped parts a truck load of old heavy parts for new aluminum parts, you name it he had it and I would just grab a shopping cart and walk the isles and fill the cart then over the years I would sell them off. just to think back on all the things I had back then, manifolds 2x2, 2x4, single 4, valley covers, rocker covers, water manifolds both styles Lark and Avanti, 57 supper charger carb. covers and base, anything he had made I got, it was like a kid in a candy store with a shopping cart. also the R-3 exhaust manifolds and head pipes, R-3 air boxes.I sure miss the days of Lionel Stone.

[gordr]

It's not something I would use. Might look cool on a show engine. I will take some pictures today. I am assuming it's not a factory R4 manifold, because all the ports would be taller, as a matter of course.

[Buzzard]

Gord,
For the record my Stu-V Dual Quad manifold is sized for regular ports but equipped with factory AFB 3810 & 3811s (going from memory) and Dwight, my clone R- 4 takes all the fuel/air 1250cfm extremely well.
My original heads have several hundred hours of modifications (406 cid Ford Valves), Iskenderian valve springs, retainers etc. and about 4-5 lbs of material removed and a custom ground Avanti 288 degree camshaft reworked by Racer Brown. All of this plus 12 1/2:1 compression makes for a potent combination.
It is too bad Studebaker was never able to bring the whole racing program to the table as the potential was certainly there. Look how successful R. Poe has been with his naturally aspirated motor.
Bill

[PackardV8]

Gord,
For the record my Stu-V Dual Quad manifold is sized for regular ports but equipped with factory AFB 3810 & 3811s (going from memory) and Dwight, my clone R- 4 takes all the fuel/air 1250cfm extremely well.
My original heads have several hundred hours of modifications (406 cid Ford Valves), Iskenderian valve springs, retainers etc. and about 4-5 lbs of material removed and a custom ground Avanti 288 degree camshaft reworked by Racer Brown. All of this plus 12 1/2:1 compression makes for a potent combination.
It is too bad Studebaker was never able to bring the whole racing program to the table as the potential was certainly there. Look how successful R. Poe has been with his naturally aspirated motor.
Bill

For true, Bill. If one spends the time and money, the R4 is potent. If a customer came to me today and asked for a replica of your build, because of all the hand porting on the heads and the parts costs, I'd quote him $5,000 -$6,000 and up.

OTOH, there's an "R4" out there the owner built himself for cheap. It is a stock 289" with a cast iron Cadillac 2x4 intake, chrome rocker/valley/air filter covers and repop R3/4 exhaust manifolds. The owner is perfectly happy with it because at shows the majority who ooh-ahh over it believe it to be an R4.

jack vines

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Back in the late 1960s there was a '63 Avanti with an R4 engine near here. The engine had been purchased in the crate and installed at Kern Motor Co. (Studebaker dealer) in Winchester, VA. It went through an owner or two who didn't understand the implications of a 12:1 C.R. (Sunoco 260 or racing gas). After it failed and was torn down I saw the innards. Two cylinders had to be sleeved and virtually every ring was broken.
-Dwight

[Buzzard]

Yeh, Dwight, can you say detonation?

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Yeh, Dwight, can you say detonation?

I sure can. Back then (late '60s) I had an R3 engine that I bought in the crate and installed in my '64 Avanti. The 9.75 C.R., plus the supercharger, made for an effective ratio of (something higher than 9.75), such that I had to use Sunoco 260, the highest octane gas available around here then. Even Amoco premium, the next highest octane, was not adequate for hard driving. At least, with the R3, I could drive it easy so that the static C.R. of 9.75 didn't cause pinging. With an R4 the C.R. is 12:1 all the time. The driver of the R4 Avanti must have heard the detonation, because I could hear it on mine. Some people drive cars like they are trying to kill them.
-Dwight

[gordr]

Well, I took some pictures. Mounted it on a 259 that I have on a stand. It fits, so it is definitely a made-for-Studebaker manifold, and not a brand X.

[Hawklover]

Back in the late 1960s there was a '63 Avanti with an R4 engine near here. The engine had been purchased in the crate and installed at Kern Motor Co. (Studebaker dealer) in Winchester, VA. It went through an owner or two who didn't understand the implications of a 12:1 C.R. (Sunoco 260 or racing gas). After it failed and was torn down I saw the innards. Two cylinders had to be sleeved and virtually every ring was broken.
-Dwight

Dwight back years ago I saw an Avanti with an R-4 in it.......it was owned by Dick and Barbara Kamphefner of Brea, California, anyone know of these folks? He purchased the real R-4 and installed it in his Avanti which had R-1 and a/c. Just imagine, a R-4 with a/c.

[Jessie J.]

Looks like a project of developing a single casting that could be used with standard heads, or be ported out for R-3/R-4 heads. …..but I am certain that I have read, and have viewed photos that indicate the R-3/ R-4 ports extend higher at the TOP of the heads, not the bottom.
A question for our experienced head porters. Can the standard head port floors be cut that deep without hitting water?

[Dwight FitzSimons]

Dwight back years ago I saw an Avanti with an R-4 in it.......it was owned by a fellow with the last name Kempheffner (sp). he purchased the real R-4 and installed it in his Avanti which had R-1 and a/c. Just imagine, a R-4 with a/c.

May be the same one; There were only a handful of R4's built. I don't know the name of the original owner (who had the R4 installed). I first became aware of the car after an acquaintance in Harrisonburg bought it. Winchester is in northern Virginia, not too, too far from NJ.
-Dwight

[Hawklover]

I sure can. Back then (late '60s) I had an R3 engine that I bought in the crate and installed in my '64 Avanti. The 9.75 C.R., plus the supercharger, made for an effective ratio of (something higher than 9.75), such that I had to use Sunoco 260, the highest octane gas available around here then. Even Amoco premium, the next highest octane, was not adequate for hard driving. At least, with the R3, I could drive it easy so that the static C.R. of 9.75 didn't cause pinging. With an R4 the C.R. is 12:1 all the time. The driver of the R4 Avanti must have heard the detonation, because I could hear it on mine. Some people drive cars like they are trying to kill them.
-Dwight

Dwight even on my R1, if I use standard pump 93 in the summer heat the car will ping like mad, thankfully there are still stocks of real TEL that are available in qt cans, when that finishes I have to consider de-tuning the car.