Build a clone or not

[Vic-mel]

I have a 64 GT Hawk with a 289 4bbl. It seems to me that I could make it into a R1 clone but I don’t know if it’s worth the time and money, thoughts?

[candbstudebakers]

need more info on how the car is equipped now since it takes more than just the engine to make a true clone, if engine needs to be rebuilt then going to R-1 cost no more than standard 289.

[Dwight FitzSimons]

The answer depends on the answers to several questions: (1) Are you doing it for your own satisfaction and a few extra horses? (2) How far do you want to take the conversion (full rebuild or not)? (3) What is your budget? (4) Do you expect to get your money back at resale time? (5) How long do you plan to keep the car? (6) How nice is the car?

The resale value would probably be increased by the upgrade, depending on how well it is done, but probably not to the level of an original R1 car. The standard 289 has dished pistons for an 8.8:1 C.R. (if memory serves me); the R1 has flat top pistons for a 10.25:1 C.R. (and 93 octane gas). The 570 heads are the same, although the exh. valves and springs are different. Numerous other things are different between a 289 and an R1: oil pan, windage tray, dist., cam gear, carb., air cleaner, etc. Buying all these parts to upgrade a 289 would be somewhat expensive. Your money, your car, your decision.
--Dwight

[Dwight FitzSimons]

need more info on how the car is equipped now since it takes more than just the engine to make a true clone, if engine needs to be rebuilt then going to R-1 cost no more than standard 289.

It would be a bit more expensive because of different air cleaner, oil pan, etc. You might budget an extra $1000+ for the R1-specific parts that you don't currently have.
--Dwight

[PackardV8]

To clarify, building an R1 long block with all new parts is no more expensive than a similar 225hp.

It's the externals, distributor, oil pan, air cleaner, which add to the cost.

The reality is the additional fifteen horsepower is not going to make a major difference in daily driving.

It's possible to split the difference and for no additional cost, build with semi-dish pistons, the R1 cam and valve springs, but keep the existing intake manifold, carburetor, distributor, oil pan and air cleaner.

jack vines

[Dwight FitzSimons]

If your 289 needs rebuilding anyway you might consider buying an R1 engine and rebuilding it, then (perhaps) sell your 289. There are some rebuildable R1 engines out there. I have one in a 64 Cruiser parts car that I would sell.
--Dwight

[64V19816]

Stick with your original motor. Next owner will appreciate that for sure. R1 wants gas that’s tough to find.

[Hallabutt]

If you are doing this because you think it will increase the value of your car-probably not. If you think that it will make your car more driveable-it will not be, unless we are talking about stoplight to stoplight. The first time you get shut down by some kid in his clapt out rice burner, you will wonder why you bothered. The only reason to do, what you are talking about doing, is that you want to do it for your own enjoyment. Bin there done that, I try not to look back. Reality is the great teacher, but not everyone is a good student.

[JRoberts]

Stick with your original motor. Next owner will appreciate that for sure. R1 wants gas that’s tough to find.

Why is such gas "tough to find"? It may cost more, sometime substantially more, but around here anyway, every gas pump has three levels of fuel.

[PackardV8]

Why is such gas "tough to find"? It may cost more, sometime substantially more, but around here anyway, every gas pump has three levels of fuel.

On a hot day in a hard pull, today's best normally available pump gas will ping in an R1.

jack vines

[Micheal17]

Stick with the original.

[64V19816]

Put on chrome valve covers!

[6hk71400]

On a hot day in a hard pull, today's best normally available pump gas will ping in an R1.

jack vines

Jack,

I have a follow up question: can a 289 be warmed up to gain the 15 horsepower without all the expense of converting to R1? My 56 President Classic is rated at 210 horsepower and later the same engine was rated at 225. I am not interested in any change on my car because I am happy with the drivability with the T-85. Maybe the OP is just wanting a little extra giddy up with his car.

Bob Miles

[t walgamuth]

Stick with your original motor. Next owner will appreciate that for sure. R1 wants gas that’s tough to find.

Yeah, I'd recommend a mild cam and possibly exhaust headers. Of course a four barrel if you don't have one. Oh and don't forget an exhaust with some rumble.

[PackardV8]

Jack,

I have a follow up question: can a 289 be warmed up to gain the 15 horsepower without all the expense of converting to R1? My 56 President Classic is rated at 210 horsepower and later the same engine was rated at 225. I am not interested in any change on my car because I am happy with the drivability with the T-85. Maybe the OP is just wanting a little extra giddy up with his car.

Bob Miles

The R1 was the only way Studebaker Engineering could devise to gain another fifteen horsepower.

Yeah, I'd recommend a mild cam and possibly exhaust headers.

Without an increase in compression, a cam with increased duration will most likely lessen low end horsepower.

As to headers, where are we going to find those?

jack vines