Newspaper Article on Petty Enterprises Possibly Running Studebakers in 1964

[r1lark]

Found this article while looking for something else Studebaker-related: http://racersreunion.com/tmc-chase/g...pettys-in-1964
Talks about Petty Enterprises considering running a Studebaker in 1964 NASCAR Grand National completion. This was a new one on me - anyone else every heard anything like this?

I'll leave everyone to interpret this and draw their own conclusions....................

[PackardV8]

Congrats. It rare we get new old news here. I was there following NASCAR in '64 and that possibility certainly didn't get wide circulation.

jack vines

[DEEPNHOCK]

There was some grumbling do to the Hemi engine in 1964...
Racers always 'talk' to manufacturers...Looking for something.
(copy)
1964 saw Richard win his first Grand National title, and first Daytona 500. Joining in the Chrysler boycott of NASCAR due to the ban of the Hemi engine, Petty spent most of 1965 drag racing, and only made fourteen out of fifty-five races on the circuit.

[jts359]

I was stationed in West Germany in the early 70's and they had an automotive book in the library that listed the specs of many brands of cars . They had an article in that book about Studebakers and it listed the 426 Hemi as an option in1964 , Ed

[Mark L]

I've heard and read here that Studebaker may have already been developing a larger engine for the automobile line before automobile production was discontinued in South Bend, so maybe there were some thoughts about putting it into the Hawk, or what came after it, and racing it. That would have been more competitive than the "308" mentioned in the article.

[PackardV8]

I've heard and read here that Studebaker may have already been developing a larger engine for the automobile line, so maybe there were some thoughts about putting it into the Hawk, or what came after it, and race it. That would have been more competitive than the "308" mentioned in the article.

The largest Studebaker V8 is still only going to be 340".

Once the 427" limit was set and the big three were good with it, nothing Studebaker could have possibly done would have made them competitive.

Thinking about that conversation, my best guess is it was just to exert some leverage on Mopar and Nascar to give the Pettys the wheelbase and the displacement for the Mopars they really wanted to run. "You want to know how stupid your current rules are? We'll show up with Studebakers and everyone will be laughing at you all."

jack vines

[Hawklover]

I was stationed in West Germany in the early 70's and they had an automotive book in the library that listed the specs of many brands of cars . They had an article in that book about Studebakers and it listed the 426 Hemi as an option in1964 , Ed

Ed had no idea you were in the service?

[Hawklover]

The largest Studebaker V8 is still only going to be 340".

Once the 427" limit was set and the big three were good with it, nothing Studebaker could have possibly done would have made them competitive.

Thinking about that conversation, my best guess is it was just to exert some leverage on Mopar and Nascar to give the Pettys the wheelbase and the displacement for the Mopars they really wanted to run. "You want to know how stupid your current rules are? We'll show up with Studebakers and everyone will be laughing at you all."

jack vines

Studebaker gets no respect;-(

[StudeRich]

What does it matter if the limit was 426 c.i.d. (a definite nod to Chrysler) if a 304 Supercharged Super Hawk beats the competition?

[StudeNewby]

Bill France outlawed superchargers and multiple carburetors in 1957, if I recall correctly. After that, it was all about the cubes.

[Milaca]

Seems that Petty has had to change car brands many times, as either the car brand goes out of production (Plymouth and Pontiac) or the manufacturer quits the NASCAR program (Dodge).
As for a larger engine for a Studebaker, had they kept the tooling for the Packard engine...what is the largest displacement that a Packard engine can be? Being the largest production Packard was a 374, could it have been over-bored to be a 427?

[r1lark]

Seems that Petty has had to change car brands many times, as either the car brand goes out of production (Plymouth and Pontiac) or the manufacturer quits the NASCAR program (Dodge).
As for a larger engine for a Studebaker, had they kept the tooling for the Packard engine...what is the largest displacement that a Packard engine can be? Being the largest production Packard was a 374, could it have been over-bored to be a 427?

The Packard heads and intake would probably have needed re-design/re-tooling. From an airflow standpoint, I doubt if they would have even come close to the Ford FE High Riser heads/intake, or the Pontiac 421 Super Duty heads/intake, or even the Chevy Z-11 427 heads/intake. But I'll let Jack Vines (PackardV8) comment on the Packard heads' potential, since he is certainly the expert on that.

[t walgamuth]

I used to see a 63 or 4 hawk running the road course at Raceway park (Now Lucas) with the big stockers; usac. ...with a 304 ci engine. I always hoped for it to move up but it always ran near the back of the pack.

[PackardV8]

What does it matter if the limit was 426 c.i.d. (a definite nod to Chrysler) if a 304 Supercharged Super Hawk beats the competition?

As mentioned, superchargers and multiple carburetion were prohibited after 1957.

Even if it were permitted, as much as we all revere the R3, I'd bet everything I own it wouldn't last 500 miles.

Thinking about racing the Packard V8, the heads and intake are easily the equal of anything GM had available in the 1950s and early '60s. That the Pontiac Super Duty heads evolved from the original design, Packard could have easily matched those. The lower end would have needed a lot of development, as main bearing wear is a chronic problem.

I can't find much documentation, but there are anecdotes about Smoky Yunick trying to race Packards in 1956. Supposedly, the valves broke like popcorn and there were no aftermarket valves in that stem length readily available. It takes racing, breaking, improving and racing some more to end up with a reliable engine.

Some forget the first Chevrolet 427" Mystery Motor blew up regularly and it took Ford several years to make the 427" durable. The only out-of-the-box success was the 426" Mopar hemi.


jack vines

[r1lark]

Good point on the Packard bottom end Jack.......didn't think about that. Out of curiosity, how does the bearing area for a Packard V8 compare to other engines - for example, to the Ford FE and the Pontiac V8?