How many '60s

[Yogi]

There were a little over 4,000 Hawks produced in 1960. Anyone have any idea how many may be alive and well today?

[studegary]

There were a little over 4,000 Hawks produced in 1960. Anyone have any idea how many may be alive and well today?

There were 4507 1960 model Hawks. My guesstimate for an answer to your question is 500. There is no way of really knowing. Club numbers, registrations, etc. give a count of some, but not all that fit into your "alive and well" category.

[StudeRich]

Quite a few small improvements happened in '60 over the '59.
The 6 Cyl. option and 259 V8's were eliminated in South Bend Hawks, along with it's Name; "Silver" Hawk.

The "on the frame" Rear Wire Harness was replaced with one on the Floor with a Disconnect Plug.
Since they now all had 289 Engines, Finned Brake Drums all around and Model 44 Dana Differentials were added.

Interiors were upgraded and the Hawk "Bird" Emblems (3) were changed from Black to Metallic Maroon.

Of course it's ANYBODY'S guess how many actually remain, but I would guess closer to 300 "rolling" 1960 "Hawks" remain.

[plee4139]

Some years ago I contacted a service in San Diego which stated how many Sky Hawks were registered. I learned that there were only about 600 out of the total of 3,050 produced, so that works out two percent are on the road. Since then that number might have changed but you can use this as a rough guide.

[junior]

Some years ago I contacted a service in San Diego which stated how many Sky Hawks were registered. I learned that there were only about 600 out of the total of 3,050 produced, so that works out two percent are on the road. Since then that number might have changed but you can use this as a rough guide.

thinking you slipped a decimal point there...more like 20% are still on the road. cheers, junior

[StudeRich]

Not to mention those numbers are highly suspect for the the very rare '56 Sky Hawks, actually MUCH lower.

[Hallabutt]

I would love for your numbers to be correct but.... In the first place I really question that any "service" is going to be able to access the data from all fifty states, and even if they could it would only be registered derivable cars. I don't even think that information is even public record anymore. Secondly, forty years ago when such information was available it was reported by authoritative national governmental agency (name of which I would have to research) suggested that after twenty years only 1% on average of all American cars produced were still on the road. There are certainly some specialty cars like the Corvette, 1963-65 Riviera and that Avanti that exceed that by as much as fifteen fold. The Speedster register has an accumulation of two hundred plus cars, and that includes parts cars, and cars that were later parted out. That high figure is only around 10%. I would think that number would be more in line with what you would get for the Skyhawk.

IMO most parts cars are destined to remain parts cars. Today few people can, or will be able to justify the resources required to get them roadworthy. Sorry to say that my crystal ball, which looks more like a snow globe, can only conjure up 100-200 derivable survivors. I would love nothing more then to be proven wrong, but I believe in today's old car hobby numbers are going to continue the trend downward.

Bill

[Skip Lackie]

Agree with Hallabutt's view and recollection. I drafted the historic vehicle license law for DC about 40 years ago, and was able to provide legislators with publicly available data on vehicle survival rates in an effort to justify the qualification rates in the bill. There were even articles in pubs like Special Interest Autos and Old Cars with tables of vehicle attrition rates. My recollection is that the survival rate was closer to 2% after 20 years. I don't know if such data exist today, but I assume the US DOT collects them, as they would affect some of the provisions of federal safety and emissions regs and laws.

Also agree that rare or desirable are much more likely to survive. They may be abused by their first owners, but eventually they are more likely to fall into the hands of someone with the means to preserve them.

[StudeRich]

Skip, wouldn't most of that State and Fed. DOT or other, data simply be Year and Make?

It has been 40 Years or more since I have seen a West Coast State Title and Registration Form that accurately described the Vehicle MODEL!

And when they DID, few could ever know what all the Abbreviations actually mean.
You know the drill, they used CPE, HTP, HT, 4D, 2 D, Wag.. Conv. Sed. etc.

In the '50's Calif. would try to combine Commander, Regal, Coupe into about 8 Letters!
So there is NO way anyone would know the meaning of a 56H-K7 Sky Hawk.

My 08/2004 '54 Champion Starliner Calif. Title copied all these years from the Original 1953 Title, says: Model HTCVRSCH !!!!!!!!!

I am sure if you knew Stude's. some/few would know it is; Hardtop, Convertible, Regal, State, Champion? Maybe? Or instead of CV = Convert. ,CVR is Convertible and "S" is State, OR Starliner?

[Skip Lackie]

Rich-
Yes, the data I referenced in defending my bill were just year and make. In one of the hearings on the proposed law, several legislators objected to the 25 year-old qualification (20 for orphans) on the grounds that it would allow too many cars to qualify for cheaper historical plates. I was able to show that by the time vehicles were 25 years old, only about 1.2% remained on the road.

I have no idea whether there is a standard set of model abbreviations for use on car titles and registrations. Things like cpe, sed, and cv seem to be pretty standard, but I suspect it's often left up to the discretion of the clerk filling out the paperwork. I have an 89 Camaro Z-28, and the registration says the model is CMROIROC. I know what this means, but most wouldn't.

[Hallabutt]

Intriguing how the high survival rate of a specialty model, in a low year will skew the numbers for the whole year's production run. For instance the individual survival of the Hawk or Avanti or Daytona convertible taken individually is impressive, but taken together would probably add up to more then 2% survival. This in spite of the fact that total production of the three models is only a drop in the bucket when total production for 1964, which is reported to be 47,215.

I'm no longer surprised when I go to a large Studebaker gathering and finding no four door Larks or wagons. The first time I was aware of what had been lost was 2008 Lancaster Pa. I had just discovered an all original 1960 Lark 4dr wagon, and wanted to check on a thing or two before I declared it the original that I believed it to be. I was going to the International anyway, and I thought that this would be a good time for discoverery.

I had watched over the years as bread and butter vehicles were unceremoniously disposed of, but I was unaware of how the process would show up on the show field. I walk around for the whole week looking for a wagon like mine. There simply was nothing there. Not only were there no 1960 wagons, but no 60 Larks of any kind. I thought that certainly something would show up for the car show. The day of the show I waded through a sea of Hawks and Avantis and was about to give up when I came across the only 1960 Lark I had seen all week. It was a nicely restored four dr. and I was able verify what I needed to.

On the last day of the meet all the venders had gone home,but one. The owner/vender had driven his 1960 Lark 4dr. from South Bend. The car's black paint still shined, but the whole lower body was honeycombed rust. That car spoke louder then words, as to the process that had taken place throughout the eastern part of the US. Thankfully the process was not as extreme in much of the West, so survivors still exist. Sadly the fatal process of continues today. We just lost two rust free, first gen wagons to the crusher, within the last several months.

Thanks to those that took the time to read this disjointed narrative. Numbers are only numbers, but real world experiences are the things that tell the tail.

Bill

[Skip Lackie]

Since my earlier post was based on my memory (a really dangerous practice), I dug through my archives and found the articles on which I based my attrition data 40 years ago. The principal article I used appeared in Special Interest Autos (now called Hemmings Classic Car) from some time in 1970 or 71. It discussed the attrition rates for various American makes and models, and then averaged them. The 1% survival rate occurred at approximately 18.5 years after the production year, with 0.1% level at 23.2 years. So Hallabut's original guess was better than mine.

I strongly suspect that modern vehicles last a lot longer, so maybe the current situation is somewhere between Bill's estimate and mine.

[tsenecal]

I have one of the surviving 1960 Hawks. It just happened to be looking for a new home while I was shopping for an M15A. I ended up with them both, but restored the Hawk first. There is a small photo as my avatar. It is restored as original, with the exception of the gauges, which I now think will end up being replaced with new original looking Stewart Warners. It is a fun car to drive, and I am happy to have saved it from the crusher.

[64Avanti]

I learned to drive with a 1960 Hawk. As far as the comments about the dirth of 4 door Larks I would suggest that perhaps many viewed Studebakers as I did. I was interested in the Hawks and the older C/K models, 53-55 and the Avanti. I had no interest in any of the sedans or Lark models. So I would have no interest in restoring or having one of the sedans (53-58). Now I might consider one of the 63-66 wagons or a 2 door 63-66 Lark type. So I suspsect that many were not interested in the models I wasn't interested in. Just my opinion.

[Hallabutt]

David,

My own personal experience, mirrors yours pretty closely. Somewhat sadly my window into the future was probably a little wider then most, because I'm older the most. I did own some Larks and several 55 sedans, but they were beaters, or parts cars. It's easy to say that I should have known better, but my crystal ball failed me. Or maybe I ignored what it was trying to show me. Whichever was the case it took receiving my Father's 1963 Dayton ht, upon his passing, to allow me to see the light. By the mid 90's my transition of collecting what everyone else liked, to that which needed to be saved was complete. I'm not talking about projects, that I had come to realize that would never be completed by me. In contrast these were original, or refurbished cars, that few in our community cared about enough to save. I saw the trend that we a talking about, and began to focus on a particular car's story, and moved away from everyone else was doing, and what they seemed to want.

I had been fortunate to have already amassed a collection of some pretty special cars, so it may have been easier for me to make the transition. I haven't added many cars, but I began to let the right cars find me, rather then looking for a particular model. It has been a different experience to be able to focus on the car an it's story. A kind of unexpected benefit of being able to tell the story, has been how people flocked to a particular car, regardless of what it is. That is, as long as the car is a model seldom seen, and there is a compelling story that accompanies it. Our Studebakers all meet the first criterion, the story sometimes takes a little more effort, but I recommend the process to anyone who is willing to make the effort.

Bill