Are there differences between 6 and 8 cyl Hawks

[jeryst]

I have been looking for a Silver Hawk, but just have not been able to find anything decent in my price range. Recently, I talked with a gentleman who has a Hawk for sale that meets my criteria. The only problem, is that it is a 6 cyl, and I wanted a V8. So I have two questions. (1). Does the engine affect the value of Hawk very much? (2). Are there differences in a 6 cyl car vs an 8 cyl car other than the engine? For example, Chevys and Mopars put different suspensions, frame components, etc on the higher performance cars, that they did not put on the 6 cyl versions. Did Studebaker do that on the Hawks?

[StudeRich]

The 8 Cyl. Studebakers have heavier Front Springs, larger Front & Rear brakes by 1 inch Dia. also heavier Clutch, Transmission, Driveshaft and Rear Axle. The fan shroud and Radiator are different because of in & outlets mostly. Most of the rest is the same.

They may not be as radically different as some makes, more than others.

So you need a cheap, rust bucket V-8 parts car to build a V-8.

I remember early Chevys always used just one mid grade power train behind both their 6 & 8 so you got a bit more than you needed on the 6 and not really enough on the V-8, it was was all about cost! Also made for good replacement part sales.


StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

[jeryst]

I wouldnt necessarily want to change it to a V8. I was just wondering if there were differences and if it was less fun to drive. Did the 6 have enough power, or was it a dog?

[PackardV8]

quoteid the 6 have enough power, or was it a dog?

You will get differences of opinion here. IMHO, and I owned and drove one for years, a 6-cyl Hawk is a dog with fleas.

thnx jack vines

PackardV8

[StudeRich]

Oh I forgot to tell you about the Value! The V-8 is worth almost twice as much, little demand for a slug! I ditto what Jack said!

After all, a Hawk is supposed to be a sporty performance car, but the U.S. Built '56 Flight Hawk, & '57-'59 Silver Hawk 6, do not live up to the rep that Hawks have! [xx(] I would never have built them, if it was up to me! [V]


StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

[jeryst]

Thanks for the information guys. Now I know why a car in such nice hsape is going for such a good price. I guess I'll just keep looking.

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by jeryst
Did the 6 have enough power, or was it a dog?

It will have 'enough' power to keep you satisfied and sound great if you do this to it:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23803

Craig

[billmdonn]

In 1964 my first car was a 1957 Silver Hawk. It was a flathead six. It was a bit of a dog, but I liked it still the same. I could see myself getting involved with the hawk you are talking about. If you are not going to purchase it, send me the contact information via email. It might be worth investigating.

"I know nothing"

Sargent Schultz

[53k]

quote:Originally posted by jeryst

I have been looking for a Silver Hawk, but just have not been able to find anything decent in my price range. Recently, I talked with a gentleman who has a Hawk for sale that meets my criteria. The only problem, is that it is a 6 cyl, and I wanted a V8. So I have two questions. (1). Does the engine affect the value of Hawk very much? (2). Are there differences in a 6 cyl car vs an 8 cyl car other than the engine? For example, Chevys and Mopars put different suspensions, frame components, etc on the higher performance cars, that they did not put on the 6 cyl versions. Did Studebaker do that on the Hawks?

Just my personal opinion, but if the car is nice (rust-free, etc.), I'd still seriously consider it. The '56s and '57s had a longer stroke version of the original Champion 170 cid engine and to me it seemed to have quite a bit more torque. If it is overdrive equipped, it really isn't too bad to drive. And, hop-up equipment is available for the engine. It's lighter than the V-8- easier to steer, better balanced. It can always be changed to V-8 at some point.
This web site shows representative values of '56 Hawks (may be a bit high).

http://www.manheimgold.com/car_lo.html

Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine
1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)

[studebaker-R2-4-me]

I've seen that '53 Champion with the Offenhauser manifold that Craig is referring too. It's owned by a long time friend of mine in the Edmonton SDC Chapter. The performance is there and the Gas Mileage that Curtis claims is unbelievable.

Don't discount that Hawk if it is in as good of shape as you say it is especially if the money is right. Cathcart could performance up the Hawk without any trouble. Here's a link to Bill's Site:

http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/

One of the articles Bill wrote on modifying the Champion engine

http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/articles.htm

1964 R2 GT Hawk

1963 Daytona Convertible

Oakville, Ontario.

Hamilton Chapter

[JDP]

The upside is the 6 cylinder should be much cheaper to buy since it's less collectible. I've owned all the finned Hawks and driving a six was the least fun. Also, the public thinks only of Golden Hawks and you'll have to suffer the confused look when they get you to open the hood looking for a supercharger.

JDP/Maryland
"I'm a great believer in luck and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

[PackardV8]

As I said, you'll get differences of opinion here. jerystdid inquire about performance. For those who can be satisfied with the Flight/Silver Hawk, good on yer' and drive it forever. They have the classic Hawk look. They'll get to and from the SDC meetings, if one watches the mirrors carefully in urban traffic. Just be aware of the very finite limits to the performance envelope.

Some who encourage hopping up the Champion 6-cyl have never personally done it. The modified Champion horsepower figures and the fuel economy figures sometimes tossed out are not consistent with my experience. Whether a 6-cyl or a V8, the mass, wind and rolling resistance are the same - it takes a given amount of fuel to move a 3500# Hawk down the road. Driven equally, there isn't more than one MPG difference between the two. However, "equally" ends early - the 6-cyl runs out of possibility just where the V8 starts pulling strong. Try to make the modified Champion keep up with the V8s and it will die young. An automatic Champion Hawk is rare. The overdrive is the Champion's friend and makes the best of what is possible.

As always, your car, your money, your decision.

thnx, jack vines


PackardV8

[fstst56]

I was always led to believe that the frames on Studebaker 6 cyl
cars were lighter. Anyone know for sure?

I have a 1956 Golden Hawk and a 1953 Champion Coupe.
The Hawk I drive for fun. The coupe I drive for gas mileage.
Since gas prices have dropped so much since just September, it
doesn't make that much difference anymore.

If you get a 6 cyl car, make sure the overdrive is working.
It will be hard to keep up with traffic if its not.

I had a '57 Silver Hawk V-8 that someone had installed a
supercharger on before I got it. That car was FUN to drive!

[bob.c]

jeryst: you mentioned "a good price". Could you share that with us? I am sure there are many members who would be interested and could possibly make the seller a reasonable offer. Thanks! bob.c

[Chris Pile]

quote:Cathcart could performance up the Hawk without any trouble. Here's a link to Bill's Site:

http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/

One of the articles Bill wrote on modifying the Champion engine
http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/articles.htm

I'm with Craig, put a little zip in that six and go from a dog to a hot dog!

Chris Pile
Midway Chapter SDC
The Studebaker Special