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**DEEPNHOCK** · 10-30-2008, 05:19 AM

Did anyone ask him about the rest of his parts?
Jeff[8D]

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

**fiftystarlightcoupe** · 10-30-2008, 05:27 AM

I wonder how much he spent on the car before the work. I don't understand why a restored car was required when so little of it was used. I would have looked for a "project" body instead. I guess on the bright side, there are some good parts available now.

**DEEPNHOCK** · 10-30-2008, 05:33 AM

Not trying to sound elitist...
But if you have enough funding to buy out a collection, and have Morrison build you a chassis, and have a high end blown engine built for you....
Then you are not going to start with a rustbucket of a car to begin with.
That's something CASO's would do
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by fiftystarlightcoupe

I wonder how much he spent on the car before the work. I don't understand why a restored car was required when so little of it was used. I would have looked for a "project" body instead. I guess on the bright side, there are some good parts available now.

**4961Studebaker** · 10-30-2008, 05:42 AM

Also like to add.
Now not knowing if the ebay guy did all the work himself........most shops tell would be builder...errrrrr.....deep pocket customer to find the best example out there, cause it will save you money in the long run.

Depends, do you plan on reusing everything? Then its a potential waste, outside of selling all the little parts that may fund a tiny part of the project an incomplete car can be just as benificial.

Ok, off to the garage to work on Studes....CASO style for now.

Truck motor's at the machine shop now.

ChopStu

**barnlark** · 10-30-2008, 06:34 AM

"Any joe can restore a car, but it takes a real man to cut one up."

Not sure about that front grill treatment. [V] but the whole effort was for something I would never be into anyway. I appreciate those who race them and build them to that extent, but that comment bugs me. Seems to me if he needed to butch up to prove himself he only succeeded in ponying one up... as in money, not cutting one up to improve upon the '56 design. I know, that wasn't the plan & I understand responding to a stock purist comment..(my guess is the purist is on here & used to a more sympathetic ear)..and the seller is right about it being worth more than a 6 cyl. stock Hawk, so I just hope he saved the original parts for someone. I see both sides of a project like that, (the old, it is his car argument) but wreaks of self indulgence to me now being pawned off to someone else after boredom. Then again, maybe I just have deep pockets envy.

**Roscomacaw** · 10-30-2008, 08:05 AM

Dave, I agree with every one of your comments. Having worked in a Resto facility years ago (Resto - not Rod-o), it amazed my poor (literally poor) butt that we had so many customers that had little to no real sense of attachment with their money-slurping projects. Basically, they were just something to impress friends or some new (to them) venture (toy) to see if they might be able to get some sort of sensory perk out of it.
While I'll NEVER do a car on the level of JDPs Emerald GT, I'd only get limited jollies out of a turnkey Stude that my only involvement in had been writing checks.[B)]

This Hawk is another exercize in the "Mine's-bigger-than-yours" realm. <yawn>[|)]

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

**PackardV8** · 10-30-2008, 08:29 AM

FWIW, fifty years of watching the market says an equivalent home-built restoration of a car usually will recoup more of the investment than a hard-core modified or street rod. If the hot rod seller can get fifty cents on the dollar for the hard parts investment and nothing for his labor, he's doing about average. The reason is broad appeal. Every street rodder has an opinion of how it SHOULD have been done. Too much horsepower, not enough horsepower, ProStreet cars are so last century - ProTouring is where it is at today, nice custom, but I don't like the graphics, should have used air suspension . . . on and on. The restoration is what it was and the buyer either wants a re-creation of that make/model car or he doesn't.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

**studeclunker** · 10-30-2008, 10:13 AM

quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

FWIW, fifty years of watching the market says an equivalent home-built restoration of a car usually will recoup more of the investment than a hard-core modified or street rod. If the hot rod seller can get fifty cents on the dollar for the hard parts investment and nothing for his labor, he's doing about average. The reason is broad appeal. Every street rodder has an opinion of how it SHOULD have been done. Too much horsepower, not enough horsepower, ProStreet cars are so last century - ProTouring is where it is at today, nice custom, but I don't like the graphics, should have used air suspension . . . on and on. The restoration is what it was and the buyer either wants a re-creation of that make/model car or he doesn't.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

quote:I see both sides of a project like that, (the old, it is his car argument) but wreaks of self indulgence to me now being pawned off to someone else after boredom.

I have to agree with most of what Jack said and completely with the snipped comment from Barnlark. Here's another spoiled rich boy chopping up a perfectly good car just for his own jollies. When he's done with the silly thing it can't even be driven on the road anymore! Doesn't make a decent racer, doesn't make a good drag car, doesn't make a good driver, it's worthless for anything but an ego ornament! Then he gets bored with it and wants everyone else to pay for his self-indulgence. Makes me sick.[xx(]

This wasn't the work of a 'real man', it was the work of a spoiled child![V]

Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

**Chris Pile** · 10-30-2008, 10:38 AM

I emailed him to ask about the reworked bodywork of the grille and front end, he replied that he had done it himself. If he actually had, I'm not sure I believe him, and since he hired it all done - whoever did do it made no improvements from stock.

Chris Pile
Midway Chapter SDC
The Studebaker Special

**65cruiser** · 10-30-2008, 10:39 AM

This is the statement that bothered me the most:

I started with a fully restored 1956 studebaker Flight hawk. The man who restored the car was a Studebaker collector, who passed away. His collection, which consisted of over 40 restored vehicles, tons and pallets of NOS parts along with dealer signs etc was auctioned off, and I bought this gem.

You can't take 'em with you, but I'll bet whoever originally owned this car was a member of the SDC. It's just sad to think that someone spent the time to restore this car, then it was blown apart to become a rod with no real purpose.[V]

That begs the question, does anyone know who the "collector" was? I'm assuming since the car is in New England, it might not have gone far from home. Sombody ought to be able to recognize it as it's got a Packard Hawk toilet seat on the trunk lid.

Mark Anderson
Member SDC and FMCA
Keeper of the Studebaker Cruiser Registry

https://www.65cruiser.com

**Dick Steinkamp** · 10-30-2008, 11:55 AM

quote:Originally posted by barnlark

"Any joe can restore a car, but it takes a real man to cut one up."

...but that comment bugs me.

Dave,

It DOESN'T bug you that it was a response to the statement that "Basicly, what you did is you ruined a really nice Studebaker" ?

YOU wouldn't be offended if someone came up to you at a meet and told you that you ruined a good Lark with the modifications you made to your red car?

It has happened to me at an SDC International Meet. I was offended, but not quick enough to have a snappy come back.

If I was the eBay lister, I probably would not even have posted the comment, but he might have been so offended that he felt he had to say something.

Not directed at you, Dave, and I've said this here (many times) before, but it really gets old hearing how there is only ONE way to enjoy the hobby...MY way. It's hurtful and divisive to those of us who can at least tolerate a variety of builds. It drives folks away from the forum who just might do something different with their Stude than what would be accepted by many here. The demeaning comments have often been read by the actual car owner which makes us all look silly at best.

It's fine to have preferences, likes, dislikes, favorites, etc. But comments like the following do nothing to encourage participation or to further the Studebaker hobby.

"It's just sad to think that someone spent the time to restore this car, then it was blown apart to become a rod with no real purpose."

"I'm not sure I believe him, and since he hired it all done - whoever did do it made no improvements"

"Here's another spoiled rich boy chopping up a perfectly good car just for his own jollies"

"This wasn't the work of a 'real man', it was the work of a spoiled child!"

"it's worthless for anything but an ego ornament!"

"Makes me sick"

"This Hawk is another exercize in the "Mine's-bigger-than-yours" realm"

"Seems to me if he needed to butch up to prove himself he only succeeded in ponying one up."

I'm not trying to be a moderator or to talk anyone into being "politically correct". People are going to post what they post. Most likely they wouldn't say the same things to the owner at a meet or even post comments like the above if they knew the owner was reading their words, but throwing rocks from behind a keyboard with a screen name seems to be good sport...very weak, but good sport.

I wonder what the rock throwers here REALLY think of the custom and modified cars owned by forum members.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

**JBOYLE** · 10-30-2008, 12:32 PM

Dick
I agree with you...we need to have an "big tent' and be open minded.
But
In the defense of those that took exception to the guy and what he did...let's remember:
--He's not an SDC member and won't see the comments...and judging by his attitude would'nt become a member if we gave it to him and made him mayor of South Bend.--The car was on ebay and [u]not</u> this forum.
--IMHO, the commentors here were showing him about the same level of disrespect he showed stock Studebaker owners by rubbing their nose in the fact he modified/butchered (take your pick

) what he said was a nice car.

Because of those points...especially the first two, I don't have any heartburn about SDC members making comments about the guy.
It's the same way I might say something about a politician or actor while watching them at home on television. In person, I doubt if I'd say things to their face that I say in front of the TV.

When it comes to making comments about fellow SDC members and their cars, I'd expect a bit of tact and understanding.
Which this forum usually provides.
You don't call anybody's baby (or in this case Studebaker...whether it be stock/modified/or even an Avanti) ugly.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

**dictator27** · 10-30-2008, 12:54 PM

Well said, Dick. I totally agree. Personally, I fall into the "leave it original" camp. (My 54 Commander K is totally devoid of options and it's staying that way.) Having said that, I am not going to knock a beautifully done custom. When someone puts a lot of thought, time, effort - and money - into something which is ultimately an expression of themself, I have to admire them for it. I may not like it, but I figure I have no say because it's not my car! It's the half-a**ed jobs that aggrannoy me.

Terry
PS The ute is cute.[^][8D]Sorry, couldn't resist!

**bams50** · 10-30-2008, 01:11 PM

All you can do is try, Dick... over and over and over...[|)]

I can't believe anyone really thinks you should use tact- as long as they're an SDC member... if not, let's see if we can really hurt and alienate them[}

] For what purpose?? I don't know how many MORE times we have to find out an owner's a lurker by being offensive and him feeling he has to come on and defend himself[V] Why this very simple concept is not only ignored, but draws arrows under the incorrect guise of being too PC defies explanation[xx(] I just hope this guy doesn't find this Forum and this thread

I keep thinking about a certain young member here who, upon seeing this surface the last time, said he didn't think he'd ever post about his own work again... and who could blame him?

I don't post this opinion because I want to start trouble, or anger some otherwise good folks; it is merely a signal to anyone new that not everyone is like this[B)]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

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