National Museum Cars

[BobPalma]

Bill Pressler & Gary Lindstrom: Have either of you seen the new, December 2008 Collectible Automobile magazine? There's a pretty photo-feature spread on a 1964 Belvedere 426 Super Stock hardtop in dark blue. Very nice car.

Bob Andrews: Yes, Studebaker's price differential problems were pretty well over with beginning with the 1959 Lark.

Craig: I think we're splitting hairs, here, as to Studebaker's perceived competitors in 1964. Here are 1964 Mercury Comet prices. There is virtually no difference between these prices and those of the Fairlane:

1964 Mercury Comet Caliente 2-door HT (six cylinder): $2,375

(No V-8 option price is listed, but the base V-8 option back then was usually about $100, which would bring the V-8-powered Caliente hardtop to about $2,475, only $45 more than the V-8 Fairlane.)

1964 Mercury Cyclone 2-door HT with standard 289/210 V-8: $2,655.

The 289/210 HP Studebaker V-8 was a $35 option for the $2,443 Daytona V-8 hardtop, bringing it to $2,478 with an engine equivalent to the Cyclone.

(Well...equivalent in displacement, that is. In service with the same maintenance, the Studebaker V-8 would have lasted twice as long as the burned-valve-prone small-block Ford V-8 it's first couple years out. I know: I was trying to tune them up in service stations at the time, having to deliver the news of a low cylinder due to a weak valve to customers when they wondered why we couldn't make it run smoother with a tune-up!) BP

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


Craig: I think we're splitting hairs, here, as to Studebaker's perceived competitors in 1964.

Bob, I am going by light blue colored 'Competitive Product Review' that was published by Studebaker and is in the gold 1963 Facts & Folio, and it does include the 'upmarket' compacts besides the low-priced Big Three compacts. Obviously, Studebaker considered the Comet and B-O-P cars to be their competition as well!![:0]

Craig

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by 8E45E

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma


Craig: I think we're splitting hairs, here, as to Studebaker's perceived competitors in 1964.

Bob, I am going by light blue colored 'Competetive Product Review' that was published by Studebaker and is in the gold 1963 Facts & Folio, and it does include the 'upmarket' compacts besides the low-priced Big Three compacts.[:0]

Craig

Studebaker's better value sure comes to light in these B-O-P prices, Craig:

1964 Buick Skylark V-8 hardtop: $2,751

1964 Pontiac Tempest Custom 2-dr HT (six; no V-8 price listed): $2,345

1964 Oldsmobile F-85 Cutlass Holiday V-8 2-dr HT: $2,807

(Geeze, Louise; the Olds is $101 more than the base price on Gary's 1964 Fury hardtop! But, hey; those were the days when GM could charge just about any price they d*mn well pleased and the customers still couldn't wait to start writing the check!) BP

[R3 challenger]

The factory clone (now in Australia) to the museum R1 hardtop has serial number 64V-12414. Its final assembly date was 10-16-63, which is a long time before the museum car was built, so it sat around for over two months before being selected for the PA delivery. The original destination for 64V-12414 was Plainview, Texas....we don't know why it stayed at the factory, but the production order did not have "SOLD RUSH" on it.

Actually, the last complete (not CKD) Studebaker to officially leave factory assembly lines was Avanti R-5643. According to the production order, it was completed on December 26, 1963, six days after the museum Daytona HT. But the museum R1 HT is the last of the "bread & butter" models. Come to think of it, the clone might be the "last" car, if you allow the engineering department the honor of production status. Many would not.

I'd like to see the museum car completed, too, but my preference would be to keep the present mileage. Less than 30 miles comes only once!

George

george krem

[barnlark]

"I'd like to see the museum car completed, too, but my preference would be to keep the present mileage. Less than 30 miles comes only once!"
george krem

I now think you are exactly right, George. As much as I'd like to have a chance to drive it, it needs to stay at 30. Thanks for more information on them from someone who's been there and back with this marque. Rebuilding my car and driving it after 37 years was just as much of a thrill to drive for the first time. Not like a NOS car, but pretty darn smile inducing.
Can you really consider a factory Daytona that the engineering dept. completed to the original order specs a clone? I think it's the real deal, maybe better, but I certainly respect your very erudite opinion on it's status. The last car "out of the door" and "off the line" may not be the same thing, but maybe the second built/finished car should just be called a "twin" to the Museum's car. They were separated at birth!

[Bellingham Studenut]

The following are all the 10 Bordeaux Red 64 Daytona Hardtops made with R1 engine and 4 speed transmission.
Note: The one in the National Museum and Australia were ordered with red cloth seats, not all vinyl, so the museum car may be getting brittle to sit in (although I would have let the dealer sit in it).


Serial#, Engine#, Interior, Current Location
1378, H38, Brown Vinyl, Nevada, TX
1433, H313, Black Vinyl,
5669, J311, Black Vinyl,
9342, J330, Black Vinyl,
9705, J330, Black Vinyl,
11942, K310, Black Vinyl,
12414, K315, Red Cloth, "Vict Austr TW 9/89"
12694, K316, Black Vinyl,
17546, M314, Red Vinyl, Bellingham, WA
20202, ????, Red Cloth, Stude Museum

Anyone know the engine # of 20202?

James


The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

[R3 challenger]

Good points. One change the factory apparently did not make to the "conversion" car was to install front fender (oval) R1 ID tags. A production line R1 would have had those as standard equipment. The probably reason is that the conversion Daytona was originally made with a stock 289 engine, not an R1. As such, it would have had the stock 1964 V8 parallelogram emblems on the front fenders. I know from experience that when those are removed, they tend to leave small indentations in the paint, and those indentations are visible when an oval R-engine emblem is then installed. The factory likely did not want to send out a car with those imperfections, and at that late date, they probably didn't want to repaint the front fenders.

So 64V-12414 may be the only 1964 Lark-type Avanti powered car that left the factory with stock V8 fender tags.

George














george krem

[StudeRich]

Hi James glad to see you here, thanks for posting that good info! [^]

I find it interesting that your car's Serial and Eng, number are way later than all the rest, except the one Museum car, I expect it to be a slightly later "M" November build date than yours, maybe!

In '63 they seemed to be going hand to mouth on the engines vs the car build dates, all of my '64 build slips show very close Eng. and car build dates. [:0]

StudeRich -Studebakers Northwest Ferndale, WA

[studegary]

quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

I still think Bill is correct, after all those WERE the Lark Type's competition! I think if you loaded up a Falcon Sprint Hardtop with as many options as your full size Mopar, the price would be pretty close.
But regardless of the price, a top of the line Compact is a top of the line compact, and that is what they had to compete against, certainly not an overgrown tank like a Satellite or Fury.

StudeRich

Rich - I think that you may be confused on years and models. I do not have the dimensions here, but a 1964 Fury hardtop was not "an overgrown tank," I believe that a '64 Fury hardtop was not much larger, and probably not much heavier, than a '64 Daytona hardtop.
I traded my '64 Fury hardtop in on a new '65 Sport Fury hardtop. That was a big car (compared to the '64) as my 1963 Dodge Custom 880 was.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

[studegary]

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

Not to confuse this discussion with facts, but I believe the MSRPs support StudeRich and Bill Pressler's position.

Base MSRPs from The Standard Catalog of American Cars 1946-1975:

1964 Studebaker Daytona V-8 2-door HT: $2,443

1964 Ford Falcon Sprint V-8 2-dr HT: $2,425
1964 Ford Fairlane 500 V-8 2-dr HT: $2,430

1964 Chevrolet Chevelle Malibu V-8 2-dr HT: $2,484
1964 Chevrolet Nova 400 2-dr HT (six cyl): $2,271

1964 Plymouth Fury V-8 2-dr HT: $2,706

While Studebaker had some destructive price differentials in the middle 1950s, they were in line with their perceived competition by 1959 and following.

(Rich and Bill win.) BP

Bob P. - I was not comparing base prices, as you are doing. I was comparing two particular cars, the '64 Daytona in the SNM with an MSRP of $3256.33 and my personal 1964 Fury hardtop.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer