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What engine is this?

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  • What engine is this?

    I am in the midst of tearing down a Commander Six engine, from a '47 1.5 ton grain truck. This is a service replacement engine, I think, and bears a tag with the number 525802 on it. Is this a 245, or a 226 Commander? The engine is stuck, which is a pity, since it seems to have low miles on it. No ridge at all in the cylinder bores, and the bearing shells and journals all seem to be good, except where rust crept in. It had antifreeze in the water jacket, so I doubt the block or head are cracked. I was able to get the crank (which is very heavy!) out without any damage, and #4 piston came out easily. The rest are stuck, with two looking to be badly stuck. The clutch is a diaphragm type, with a 9-bolt pressure plate, which I have seen before on a 245.Camshaft is stuck, too. None of the connecting rods seem to have numbers stamped in them, but some have punch marks to "number" them.
    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

  • #2
    A 525802 was a "Stripped Engine" which actually is very complete on a Six, it is for a Std. or Overdrive 1950 Commander 245.

    It had everything from a Dipstick to the Crank, Cam, Oil Pump, Oil Filler Pipe, Breather Tube, Pistons, Rings, Connecting Rods, All Bearings, Valves, Valve Springs, Valve Doors, Oil Pan, Timing Gears and Cover.

    In other words a complete engine less the head and accessories.
    StudeRich
    Second Generation Stude Driver,
    Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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    • #3
      Thanks, Rich. I sort of suspected it would be a 245, since, by the time a '47 truck would be expected to need a service replacement engine, the 245 would probably have supplanted any 226 service replacement engines in inventory. Kind of puzzling that the connecting rods are not number-stamped, though. I also noticed, when I had the rod bearing caps off to remove the crank, that odd-cylinder rods had the notch for the bearing shell tab facing one way, and even-cylinder rods had them facing the other way. Is that normal, too?Are Commander engines subject to the same lifter bore wear issues as the Champions?
      Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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      • #4
        I have never heard of any issues with Lifter Bores on the Commander Engine, I don't know without looking it up in the Shop Manual about 6 Cyl. Rod direction, but on the V8's the Oil Squirt Holes in the Rods face all the same way due to rotation (Clockwise) and left and right are different allowing that.

        New Rods from Stock would be blank so it is possible they did not bother numbering them, but it is a good thing if it is ever taken apart again to do what someone did, and Pin punch the numbers in.
        StudeRich
        Second Generation Stude Driver,
        Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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        • #5
          Well, yesterday, I got a second piston out, and a third one moved down to about the limit on its range before the skirt hits the main bearing web. The rods are stamped, but very lightly. Took a pass on the wire wheel to reveal that. Piston tops seem to be devoid of any marks, except maybe a tiny letter "B" on one.I put together a piston pusher rig that works well. Start with a Gray hub puller, like one would use on a Studebaker rear axle. Put a fourth leg on it, which I happen to have on hand. Bolt it to the block over a cylinder using 1/2-13 capscrews in the head bolt holes. My "pusher stack" goes like this: in contact with the piston, a steel shim washer that just fits the bore, and is maybe 3/8" wide. About .080" thick. Then a second gear from a T86 transmission. I used an old rusty one here. Then a 2" 3/4 drive socket, followed by a 1 7/8" 3/4 drive socket (mine stack quite nicely and keep the forces centered), then a 3/4 to 1/2" drive reducer (or other spacer, as required). This made a long stack, which was needed to reach a piston not far from BDC. Obviously, you'd need a shorter stack to reach one near the top of the bore. This setup applies the force to the perimeter of the piston, and not the center. Remains to be seen if it has collapsed the ring grooves or not. I used the puller just as i would if I were pulling a hub. Tighten down the striking wrench, give the knob on the puller screw a whack, and repeat, over and over. #1 was pretty easy: pushed it down as far as it would go, ran the hone in the cylinder, and one light blow on the rod cap with a hammer turned it loose, and it slipped up the bore and out. No ridge to speak of, at all. #2 fought all the way down. I need to put new stones on my cylinder hone, so I am stuck for the time being. #2 is still real tight, even with the wrist pin fully exposed below the cylinder. Time for some heat...
          Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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          • #6
            Update: so, it seems this 245 is not an unmolested example of a factory replacement engine. I was solvent-washing parts today that I had previously removed. Two main bearing shells are marked ".020", and I presume they all are, although have not yet checked. And there are bodge marks in strange places, like on the crankshaft timing gear, and the thrust plate, and the front crankshaft nut. Also, the oil seal retainer in the timing cover is soldered in, if you can believe that.Is the nozzle for oiling the timing gears supposed to be basically wide open, or should it have a restriction? This one is just 5/16" tubing, half flattened at the end. Seems to me that would starve the bearings of oil pressure, and also throw so much oil on the timing gears that the front oil seal would be overwhelmed, as indeed would seem to be the case, based on the heavy buildup of crud on the front part of the exterior of the engine and its accessories.
            Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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            • #7
              Does this "Oiling Tube" come from where the Oil Pressure Regulator Valve should be, at the Lower, Right Front of the Engine?

              Rube Goldberg must have been in there!
              StudeRich
              Second Generation Stude Driver,
              Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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              • #8
                The oil pressure regulator valve is there. This nozzle attaches to a metal plate, shaped like am extended teardrop, and held on with a single 5/16" screw. It links up with a factory passage to what looks like the oil pressure relief valve dump passage. I'd say it's a factory part. There is also a hole in the front engine plate to accommodate it.
                Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                • #9
                  Wow Gord, that sounds like it was designed for the Desert Explorer Sand Cars and Trucks which DID HAVE H.D. 245 Engines!
                  StudeRich
                  Second Generation Stude Driver,
                  Proud '54 Starliner Owner

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                  • #10
                    Should I be taking some pictures of these things?
                    Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

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                    • #11
                      I'd love to see a pic or two.
                      "Burning Bridges...Lost Forevermore"......

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