Help - Studebaker Engines

[jim6346]

Really need some help here.

I have a 1958 Siverhawk I am restoring. I found a 1952 Studebaker 6 cylinder engine locally that
is all rebuilt, detailed and running and would like to use it. I don't really have anything to compare it to, and
he doesn't know what size it is, he said it is out of a 2 door hard top.

The price is great and I really want to get it, can anyone help me out? Will it fit? Both Studebakers
have overdrive, but my transmission is quite a bit longer then his.

Thanks!!
Jim

[PackardV8]

Hi Jim,

Yes, they're sort of the same.

No, not exactly. The '52 Champion would be a 170" 6-volt and a square bolt pattern short tailshaft fixed yoke transmission. Your '58 Hawk should be a 185" 12-volt Ford bolt pattern long tailshaft slip yoke transmission.

Maybe, get a Shop Manual and learn how to dial indicate a bell housing. It's theoretically possible to swap your late transmission and electrical accessories onto the earlier engine, but there are always some hiccups which the experts here will share.

jack vines

[jim6346]

Thanks Jack, I have all the accessories to swap over,just no engine

Will my bellhousing and transmssion bolt onto the older engine, flywheel, and clutch? And are the engine mounts in the same location?

Sorry for all the questions, Studebaker newbie here....

Thanks,
Jim

[candbstudebakers]

I will hold my opinion to my self on this one.

[gordr]

There were, I believe, a very few 6 cylinder '58 Silver Hawks, but most of them were V8 cars. The serial number on the door pillar should contain an "S" if it's a six-cylinder car, or a "V" if it is an eight. If the car was a six-cylinder, and you want to preserve its value as a collectible, the only correct engine would be a 185 six, which is outwardly similar to the 170, but makes more power and torque. Most Studebaker people are not nuts on the whole "matching numbers" thing, because most Studebaker engines were quite similar, but if the special feature of your car is that it was one of the few made with a six, then it had better be a six of the right type. I think you'd find the performance of that car with the 170 would be sluggish, anyway.

For future resale value, I'd recommend you find a Studebaker 259 or 289 V8, and it's matching transmission. Any such engine from 1958 to 1964 should be virtually a bolt-in. Even a Chevy 350 engine swap would improve the resale value, especially to the car market at large, outside SDC.

[doug]

I don't know about six cylinders, but changing the bell housing requires dialing in the bell housing. You don't just pull one off and bolt another one on. Study up on this first.

[jim6346]

Thanks Gordr, yes it was a six cylinder originally.

OK, a possible different direction. I found a nice 185 long block with intake and exhaust manifolds. If I bought the
170 for parts, would the carburetor, flywheel and clutch/pressure plate work? These are all new and would be worth
the price he is asking for the whole engine.

Again, newbie here, trying to do this on a small budget. Any help is always appreciated!!

Thanks,
Jim

[52-fan]

You need someone to chime in who has actually swapped this stuff around. I ran into trouble trying to use a Lark engine in a 47 pickup. The bell housing bolt holes were different. I was told that this change occurred when the deck height was changed for the 185 and left that way for the 59-60 Lark 170. The flywheel starter ring gear for the 6 volt engine would be different, but you might be able to use the 6 volt flywheel with its starter. The manifold and carburetor could be made to work, but would not be correct for your Hawk. We have a chapter member trying to sort his Lark out after someone used an earlier manifold and carb on it. The clutch and pressure plate can probably be used. Your best bet is to be patient and source the correct parts.

[StudeRich]

The critical Part here is the Clutch Housing, it sounds like you are saying you do have the 185 Original Engine's Housing, you will need that and the Original Long Tail Trans to fit the CAR.

If you are able to do that, the Rear Engine Mounts, Shift Linkage, Driveshaft etc. will all fit, IF you have these for a '58.
You will need to get some Front Engine Mount BRACKETS from a 185 Engine, and New Mounts for a '58, they use a Diagonal Rubber Engine Mount completely different than the earlier type.

There are too many years and changes between '52 and '58 for most of us to say... YES EVERYTHING WILL WORK! Some could have issues.

Truth be told, it would be very close to much easier, to start with a Complete '58 to '64 Studebaker Hawk 259 or 289 V8 Power Train conversion.
Then, you would have a MUCH more driveable Car for Today's Highways and Bi-Ways.

That is most likely what Bob at C and B Studebakers was trying NOT to disillusion you, by saying.

[gordr]

Seems to me somewhere along the line, the flange on the rear of the crankshaft changed, and they went from bolts placed in the flange to threaded holes, but maybe I am misremembering? If such a change was done, it probably happened in 1955, when they went from the small journal crank of the 170, to the large journal crank of the 185. and the large journal crank remained, even after the 185 was discontinued.

[plee4139]

Free or not, that car should have a 259 or 289 in it. You will get much more driving enjoyment, greatly increase its monetary value, and keep it more authentic. After all, it's a Hawk, not a Champion or Scotsman economy car. Keep it real!

[PackardV8]

Free or not, that car should have a 259 or 289 in it. You will get much more driving enjoyment, greatly increase its monetary value, and keep it more authentic. After all, it's a Hawk, not a Champion or Scotsman economy car. Keep it real!

I agree in principle, but it depends. Agree, because a '56 Flight Hawk was my first Stude and there was little driving enjoyment to be had there. A family friend had a 6-cyl Silver Hawk and again, I just couldn't understand why Stude built them or anyone bought a new one. Those first experiences scarred me for life, as I've spent a lot of money over the years modifying Studes with ever more horsepower.

Having said that, assuming his car was originally built as a sick six, our OP would probably be money ahead in the short run and the long run to restore his car to original, rebuilding the 185".

jack vines

[jim6346]

Thanks everyone!! Looks like too many variables. I did find a nice 185 I am going to put back in it.

Would have loved to do the V8 conversion, just not in the cards $$ wise. Probably will only be driven to local car shows anyway,
definitely no highways lol.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in, it was a big help.

Jim