Juicy Barn Find Update

[drrotor]

I might not be understanding what you're saying about the springs and pushrods no longer being available... I will say that the ones that were designed for the "Jet Streak" engine are in fact still available, and I ordered a set just this morning. The E4 cam is the one that was specified for this engine, as were the dual valve springs. Fortunately I don't have to be one of the smart ones that figured all this out-- all I have to do is find all the proper parts and assemble them correctly. As I mentioned earlier, I'm simply duplicating what Studebaker designed 60ish years ago. So I get all the fun without all the brain work!

[drrotor]

So as I move on to updating the Oiling system in this 374, my own research shows me that there are a number of ways to upgrade, or should I say "things" to upgrade to cure the oiling issues of the Packard V8. I will post them as I acquire them. Many of you already know some of these, so ignore if it's old news, and correct me if I'm wrong.
Most would agree the single biggest (but not the "only-est") culprit is the oil pump in Packard and Studebaker applications. I have been told that in the Packard cars, the oil pump also has a vacuum pump attached to the bottom of the pump, and in the Studebakers, it's the same pump but without the vacuum pump, having just a flat plate on the bottom of the pump. The problem, as I understand it, is the although the pump works reasonably well when new, as it wears, it begins to "wobble" in it's bore, since the drive and driven shafts are only supported from the top. I know that Jack Vines, along with the help of others? has come up with an excellent adapter to install a more modern oil pump from an Oldsmobile V8, in either standard or hi-volume configurations. This I'm told works very well.
However, I believe there's another method of achieving the desired result. I have talked to a few Hudson and Nash people that all seem to agree their engines don't have this problem as much. Brent Hagen in Portland, Oregon, showed me that the "Hash" oil pump is completely different from the Packard one, is directly interchangable, and fits within the original oil pan. Here's a couple of comparative pictures of the Packard pump (the dirty one), and the Hash pump (the clean, new one). You can see that the Hash pump has the drive and driven shafts extending through a cast iron bottom plate, instead of flat against the steel plate in the Packard pump. Here's an exploded view of the Hash pump from an old service manual. So this is the pump I intend to use. There are several more changes I'll be making to the oiling system, and I'll post them as I get pictures of the parts. Onward and Upward!

[StudeRich]

/Cut/Most would agree the single biggest (but not the "only-est") culprit is the oil pump in Packard and Studebaker applications. I have been told that in the Packard cars, the oil pump also has a vacuum pump attached to the bottom of the pump, and in the Studebakers, it's the same pump but without the vacuum pump, having just a flat plate on the bottom of the pump./Cut/

WHERE did this come from Kenny? There has NEVER been a problem with the Studebaker Oil pumps that I have ever heard of!

Also wouldn't the Packard Engine have been developed early in 1954 completely at the Detroit Packard Corp. without any South Bend involvement, making it seem unlikely that the Stude. Pump is the same or similar to the Packard Pump?

[JoeHall]

I'd probably give the Hash pump a try, or perhaps even better, have Jack provide a modified 56J pump, with the same, supportive bushings built into a thicker bottom plate. With that, I'd also go with the late 1956 upgrade, and install the ring under the cam gear, that only gives a dose of oil to the timing chain every 360 degrees, instead of constantly. Jack has reproduced those rings also.

[PackardV8]

Also wouldn't the Packard Engine have been developed early in 1954 completely at the Detroit Packard Corp. without any South Bend involvement, making it seem unlikely that the Stude. Pump is the same or similar to the Packard Pump?

The oil pump fitted to the '56Js is the same body/gears/shaft as that fitted to the Packards. It just doesn't have the vacuum pump underneath.

I've modified the Packard pump with a taller bushing and a thicker bottom plate, eliminating the vacuum pump and I make and sell the conversion kit to adapt the Oldsmobile oil pump to the Packard V8.

As Joe mentioned, I also have available the second-design cam retainer plate and spacer.

jack vines

[drrotor]

WHERE did this come from Kenny? There has NEVER been a problem with the Studebaker Oil pumps that I have ever heard of!

Also wouldn't the Packard Engine have been developed early in 1954 completely at the Detroit Packard Corp. without any South Bend involvement, making it seem unlikely that the Stude. Pump is the same or similar to the Packard Pump?

Rich-- My post clearly says I'm building a 374 engine-- the subject of the entire post. The "Packard and Studebaker applications (as compared to the Hudson and Nash applications)" are in reference to the Packard engines, 320, 352, and 374. Of course, I'm not even discussing the Studebaker-designed 224-232-259-289-304 engine family, which have no problems with their oil pumps!

[StudeRich]

OK, so I guess the "Studebaker Applications" you mentioned, must apply to that one off model '56 "Studebaker" GH then.

[drrotor]

Just received my Isky "Jet Streak" Dual Valve springs and spring retainers.Very glad to find that they are still available! Now I can finish the heads. I am also installing Packard valve spring oil deflectors, Bronze Valve Guides, Hardened Seats so I can run modern fuel, and Positive Valve Stem Seals. Doing my best to build a thoroughly modern Packard 374

[PackardV8]

If you haven't bought the bronze valve guides, I'd let you have at them at cost.

jack vines

[drrotor]

If you haven't bought the bronze valve guides, I'd let you have at them at cost.

jack vines

Jack-- PM sent

[drrotor]

So I think I am not going to use the Isky Dual valve springs after all. There seems to still be a missing piece of this puzzle-- namely-- which dual valve springs did Studebaker use on their prototype Jet Streak engine? The part numbers called out on their original microfiche don't have a correlation to Isky's current list of part numbers. The ones they sent me are certainly for a Packard V8, but are intended for racing applications. I tracked down this page from a '60's vintage Isky catalogue, and the cams listed here are more aggressive and higher-revving engines.These springs also would require machining away most of the valve guide boss, as the heads have no provision for dual valve springs as-is-- at least as supplied by Isky. Here are a couple of photos of the heads showing the stock Packard spring, the dual Isky springs (the two smaller ones), and the bare head showing the guide boss sticking up in which I hope you can see would not allow a smaller spring (much less dual smaller springs) to sit on the head.In the last photo, you can see the Packard spring is much larger in diameter. Larger, in fact, than a Chevrolet 454 spring. Or any other spring I could find in the Crane Cams Catalogue. Sure, I could machine the heads and make the duals fit, but the spring pressure is very high (actually over 300 lbs. at full open) which could contribute to premature camshaft wear in a street application. The stock springs make 80 lbs. seat pressure, and 170 lbs. at full open. But by using Packard's late-production valve-spring oil baffles (.022 thick) and a 3 spring shims (.030 thick each) the Packard springs reach a seat pressure of 102 lbs. and, with this E4 cam, open pressure of 205 lbs. More than enough, I believe, to keep the valves from floating a 5500 RPM, the upper usable range of this cam. This is the thickest shim(s) that can be used without running out of spring clearance.
If any of you decide you want to shim your Packard valve springs, the shims are pretty obscure! My machine shop found a few old NOS ones in Texas, and according to a catalogue, they are for some kind of a Locomotive Starting Engine! And apparently no longer in production.

[PackardV8]

In the last photo, you can see the Packard spring is much larger in diameter. Larger, in fact, than a Chevrolet 454 spring. Or any other spring I could find in the Crane Cams Catalogue.

Yes, over the years I've used Cadillac, big block Chevy, the single and dual Isky and even a diesel spring. They all require some modification to the guide boss.

But by using Packard's late-production valve-spring oil baffles (.022 thick) and a 3 spring shims (.030 thick each) the Packard springs reach a seat pressure of 102 lbs.

You'll want to confirm you have the later hardened valve spring retainers. The early unhardened retainers will allow the keeper to pull through the retainer and certain destruction follows when the valve drops through and hits the piston. Use a file; it will skate on the hard and cut the soft.

which dual valve springs did Studebaker use on their prototype Jet Streak engine? The part numbers called out on their original microfiche don't have a correlation to Isky's current list of part numbers.

Do we have any reference material that a prototype Jet Streak engine was actually built? The internal memo can be interpreted as a collection of Packard and Iskenderian part numbers which could be included if such a kit were approved and offered.

jack vines

[drrotor]

Yes, Jack-- I have already procured the hardened spring retainers (NOS), and I'm using big block Chevy hardened spring keepers-- they are a direct fit.
Some of the evidence that Studebaker actually built the Jet Streak engine is the black-n-white photo of it provided earlier in this string. And by simple logic one would deduce that it had been built for them to have provided a list of the necessary parts to build another... I sincerely doubt they would have just taken a guess at what would fit and work... whether there was more than one prototype built may be forever lost in the mists of time.

[drrotor]

What is this I found!?! If you don't follow Packard V8's, you may not know how rare this part is. This is an NOS Forged Steel Crankshaft. All stock Packards came with a cast steel crankshaft. The history of these forged units is a little murky, but various sources have told me they were made by Studebaker after the Packard engine plant had closed down. Why? As service replacement units? As high performance parts? Possibly engineered to be used in the Jet Streak engine option? Number made is also unknown to me, but some speculate it was less than a hundred. Very few are still known to exist, and this is probably the last NOS one in existence. In this photo you can see a cast crankshaft, easily distinguished by it's drilled, hollow rod journalsjust barely visible on the front journal in this photo. Conversely, the Forged crankshaft in these photoshas solid rod journals. Since Studebaker had a forging plant where they made their own high-quality cranks, it would make sense that these were made there. Once again, it breaks my heart to open this museum-like box open to install this crank, but I don't know if there's a more worthy car to install it into. It's now at the machine shop to be balanced, along with all of the other rotating parts.
Brent Hagen in Portland, Ore. had this rare crankshaft squirreled away for many years, and I was finally able to convince him to liberate it from it's dark tomb... along with a healthy dose of cash, of course... and it will be running on genuine NOS bearings.

[Jessie J.]

My suspicion is that the forged cranks were produced in response to the Packard V-8s notorious oiling problems, of course it would not have been an effective solution to the problem which turned out to be a poorly engineered air sucking oil pump.
BTW back in the '70s I had a 427 Ford HP oil pump that because of casting flaws and porosity exhibited the same symptoms, aeriated oil and rattling lifters.