Comment Directly To EPA on Higher Ethanol

[jg61hawk]

Renewable Fuel Standard Program: Standards for 2018 and Biomass-Based Diesel Volume for 2019


This link should bring you directly to the proposed rule (pretty far down) to increase ethanol levels. You can click on the COMMENT NOW button and have your say.

[StudeRich]

What a lot of un-understandable mumbo jumbo, BS, I saw nothing about actual % Levels of Ethanol being Increased in actual Gasoline, it would appear they are LOWERING it! Clear as MUD!

I don't really BELIEVE That.

Under section 211 of the Clean Air Act, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is required to set renewable fuel percentage standards every year. This action proposes the annual percentage standards for cellulosic biofuel, biomass-based diesel, advanced biofuel, and total renewable fuel that apply to gasoline and diesel transportation fuel produced or imported in the year 2018. Relying on statutory waiver authority that is available when projected cellulosic biofuel production volumes are less than the applicable volume specified in the statute, the EPA is proposing volume requirements for cellulosic biofuel, advanced biofuel, and total renewable fuel that are below the statutory applicable volumes, and lower than the 2017 requirements. In this action, we are also proposing the applicable volume of biomass-based diesel for 2019.

[jg61hawk]

1. Ethanol

Ethanol is the most widely produced and consumed biofuel, both domestically and globally. Since the beginning of the RFS program, the total volume of renewable fuel produced and consumed in the United States has grown substantially each year, primarily due to the increased production and use of corn ethanol. However, the rate of growth in the supply of ethanol to the U.S. market has decreased in recent years as the gasoline market has become saturated with gasoline that contains 10 volume percent ethanol (E10), favorable blending economics have diminished, and efforts to expand the use of higher ethanol blends such as E15 and E85 have not been sufficient to maintain past growth rates in total ethanol supply. Although we believe that use of higher ethanol blends is growing and can continue to grow, the low number of retail stations selling these higher-level ethanol blends, along with poor price advantages compared to E10, and a limited number of flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs), among other considerations, represent challenges to the rate of growth of ethanol as a transportation fuel in the United States.
See this is what we have to comment on. They haven't said they are, NOR HAVE THEY SAID THEY ARE NOT, mandating more ethanol. I think we need to comment very simply why we don't want more alcohol based fuel...dry rubber, evaporation, vapor lock, boil levels...what ever you know more than me.

[GrumpyOne]

What a lot of un-understandable mumbo jumbo, BS, I saw nothing about actual % Levels of Ethanol being Increased in actual Gasoline, it would appear they are LOWERING it! Clear as MUD!

I don't really BELIEVE That.

Under section 211 of the Clean Air Act, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is required to set renewable fuel percentage standards every year. This action proposes the annual percentage standards for cellulosic biofuel, biomass-based diesel, advanced biofuel, and total renewable fuel that apply to gasoline and diesel transportation fuel produced or imported in the year 2018. Relying on statutory waiver authority that is available when projected cellulosic biofuel production volumes are less than the applicable volume specified in the statute, the EPA is proposing volume requirements for cellulosic biofuel, advanced biofuel, and total renewable fuel that are below the statutory applicable volumes, and lower than the 2017 requirements. In this action, we are also proposing the applicable volume of biomass-based diesel for 2019.

Cellulosic biofuel simply means "corn" based/altered products. We don't need no steenkin' "advanced" products!

[Hallabutt]

Anyone notice how the reasoning behind the idea ethanol has changed from an originating additive, which was supposed to help clean the air, to the idea of renewability? More efficient, less omitting cars, hybrid technology and electric cars seems to have, pretty much, watered down the original reason for it's mandated use. While the fact that the oil production boom has poised the US into becoming an oil exporter, seems to have completely negated any logical reason for renewability argument. Then there is the questionable pay back, when considering the amount of energy used to raise the corn, transport the corn and produce the alcohol for its production. The EPA must not be worrying about the world wide fight against hunger, either. Ain't it about time to reevaluate the whole concept of ethanol?

[deco_droid]

What I have heard is that, due to new cars becoming more efficient, not to mention hybrid and electric cars reducing the amount of gasoline we use, the ethanol lobby is pushing for higher percentages, basically, because they are producing more ethanol than is needed/can be used, each year.

Unless the ethanol mandate can be changed/eliminated, 15% will be seen around the country. I have heard some stations in my area are already using it.

[Mike Van Veghten]

I don't understand...what's the problem with gasoline/ethanol blend ?
Yea, it likes aluminum. That can be somewhat fixed when the % gets high enough.
I've already changed the fuel line in two of my three running cars so I don't have to worry about that...ever again, no mater the alcohol percentage.

With a coupla engine tweaks, your Stude engine can actually make more power than it does now, although, yea, the mileage may drop depending some on how you drive.
On the "good" side...vapor lock and overheating will be eliminated..!

So...we have two considerations, a mileage loss, and the "possible" need for some sort of modifier to eliminate corrosion.
Oh my, we may have to work on our fuel systems a little, drat...

Mike

[StudeRich]

I don't get it Mike, if you have 15% Ethanol vs 10% is that not going to evaporate Faster, which will weaken the power and Octane, boil at a Lower point, cause MORE Vapor Lock?

And then there are the gasoline exposed Metal Parts that cannot be gotten in Stainless Steel, like your fancy Fuel Lines can: Gauge Sending Units, Fuel pump Parts, Carb. Parts, Gas Tanks.

[lumpy]

The biggest problem with ethanol type fuel is that it attracts water as it sits... especially in our older cars with vented fuel tanks. THE LONGER YOUR VEHICLE SITS UNUSED AND UNDRIVEN THAT CRAP ATTRACTS WATER AND DESTROYS YOUR GAS TANKS AND CARBURETORS! If you use ethanol laced fuels ... DRIVE YOUR VEHICLE! dont let it sit unused, I have seen many stuck - bent intake valves due to bad ethanol laced fuel. It goes bad in 90 days or less .. DRIVE YOUR CARS!

[Kato]

The biggest problem with ethanol type fuel is that it attracts water as it sits... especially in our older cars with vented fuel tanks. THE LONGER YOUR VEHICLE SITS UNUSED AND UNDRIVEN THAT CRAP ATTRACTS WATER AND DESTROYS YOUR GAS TANKS AND CARBURETORS! If you use ethanol laced fuels ... DRIVE YOUR VEHICLE! dont let it sit unused, I have seen many stuck - bent intake valves due to bad ethanol laced fuel. It goes bad in 90 days or less .. DRIVE YOUR CARS!

Does a good quality stabilizer help with this? We are fortunate here in Canada to have Shell Vpower 91 Octane with no ethanol but as was pointed out to me unless the pump is a dedicated to that fuel (which they are not) you will get a small amount of whatever fuel the previous customer used which is most likely a lower octane fuel with some ethanol. I'm wondering if I should be using a stabilizer year round, if it helps?

[DEEPNHOCK]

And not one word about ZDDP..... Slackers....

[Skip Lackie]

I don't understand...what's the problem with gasoline/ethanol blend ?
Yea, it likes aluminum. That can be somewhat fixed when the % gets high enough.
I've already changed the fuel line in two of my three running cars so I don't have to worry about that...ever again, no mater the alcohol percentage.

With a coupla engine tweaks, your Stude engine can actually make more power than it does now, although, yea, the mileage may drop depending some on how you drive.
On the "good" side...vapor lock and overheating will be eliminated..!

So...we have two considerations, a mileage loss, and the "possible" need for some sort of modifier to eliminate corrosion.
Oh my, we may have to work on our fuel systems a little, drat...

Mike

Mike-
I greatly respect your mechanical and specialized Studebaker knowledge, AND also your willingness to share that knowledge with the rest of us. But I really think you are assuming that the rest of us are in the your circumstances. Ethanol-laced gas might not be a problem for you, but it is for some of us. I can offer several reasons.

1.The oxygenated-fuel mandate was originally intended to force the use of MTBE, but was expanded to include other oxygenates, such as ethanol, to get the votes of mid-west corn state members of Congress. When MTBE was shown to be carcinogenic, ethanol was left as the only oxygenate standing. The ethanol industry used federal subsidies (tax money) to rapidly expand, but because new cars use less gas, now has too much capacity.
2. There is no proof that adding ethanol to gasoline reduces air pollution. There is also no proof that it doesn't. That's because the ethanol industry lobbyists have prevented the EPA from conducting an honest study of its value in cleaning up the air.
3. We don't all live in your climate. Although I don't live in the heart of the rust belt, we get enough snow, slush, and salt where I live that my old vehicles sit 4 or 5 months un-driven each winter. That is long enough that the winter-blend gasoline (which will be the only thing available after the end of September) will go stale. There is a reason that the instructions for my chains saws, weed-whacker, etc warn against using gas that is more than 30 days old. My older chain saw is now unusable because the plastic in the fuel system swelled up to the point that it won't run.
4. The proposed change in mandatory ethanol consumption is not based on any data that it will improve air quality anywhere. It is nothing more than a subsidy to the ethanol industry to make up for falling sales. Do we have a comparable requirement to use a certain amount of aluminum, steel, or beer? Industries making products should live with the consequences of the marketplace. Why should the rest of us buy more of their product when we don't need it?

[Corvanti]

I'm wondering if I should be using a stabilizer year round, if it helps?

i use StaBil in the '51 if i have to use ethanol fuel and won't drive it enough to use quickly. also use it in my yard equipment after around 10 years ago the crap gas caused my chainsaw and weed eater to seize. it wasn't as well known about the problems as it is now.

here's my usual link to non ethanol gas stations in the US and Canada: https://www.pure-gas.org/

and for Jeff: yeah, i still use Shell Rotella for zinc, etc. in the '51.

[lumpy]

As far as additives go I have used sta bil and lucas additives if i think one of my older vehicles will sit for a couple of months ,and I know some people use marvel mystery oil , I personally don't use it as I have seen it turn into little red goo balls inside the tank If you know its gonna sit for an extended period drain the tank and run the engine till it dies.

[Kato]

here's my usual link to non ethanol gas stations in the US and Canada: https://www.pure-gas.org/

What a great app this is, very useful when straying away from home. Thanks for posting it!