Golden Hawk 400 for real and I need your help.

[SN-60]

Methinks 'ol Joe 'GOT' us!!!!!!!!

[mbstude]

I think Mr. Hall might be pulling everyone's leg. No way he'd ever buy a 6 cylinder Lark.. Or run a supercharger.

On another note.. (Bob Palma???) Does anyone know what happened to the late Nollie Hinton's GH 400? It's been more than 10 years since I saw the car, and it was inside an enclosed car hauler so I never got a good look at it. It was unrestored but complete. I'm pretty sure Nollie never got a chance to restore it. He lived in Callahan, FL, just outside of Jacksonville.

[nels]

I think Mr. Hall might be pulling everyone's leg. No way he'd ever buy a 6 cylinder Lark.. Or run a supercharger.

On another note.. (Bob Palma???) Does anyone know what happened to the late Nollie Hinton's GH 400? It's been more than 10 years since I saw the car, and it was inside an enclosed car hauler so I never got a good look at it. It was unrestored but complete. I'm pretty sure Nollie never got a chance to restore it. He lived in Callahan, FL, just outside of Jacksonville.

If so then too bad.

[StudeRich]

Clover leaf 289 engines were originally intended as HD truck engines, and have "heavy duty main and connecting rod bearings and chrome faced top piston rings. Part numbers . . . . . also include aluminum camshaft timing gear. All heavy duty engines can be identified by the clover leaf symbol stamped on the engine number pad." (From 59-61 truck parts book)

The reason so many clover leaf engines have turned up in cars is because Studebaker exhausted their supply of non-HD engines in the late 1960s, and substituted clover leaf engines as replacement units. So it is extremely doubtful that the factory would have equipped a clover leaf engine with a supercharger.

That is all True Skip for Short Blocks and Full blocks.

The confusion comes possibly as SN-60 found out, when you find THE MOST common replacement engine, a Block and Pistons Assy. with a cloverleaf stamp.

A HUGE amount of these Full Flow 259 & 289 Blocks with only Core Plugs, Cam Bearings, Pistons and Rings were made AFTER the Assembly Line shutdown in Dec. '63 for Plant 8 Parts Depot Stock.

At Frost and French Studebaker in L.A. in the early 1970's we got Pallet Loads of these from Newman & Altman/Avanti Parts Corp. the price was $50.00 each.

If some had a Cloverleaf (which I think they DID) the only Semi H.D. Part they would have would be the Chrome top Rings, since none of the H.D. Parts were included.

Unless you worked in the South Bend Warehouse then, it is now impossible to know what really happened.

N&A were famous for stripping Assemblies left from the Final Line or just more complete, and selling off the pieces for more money and a quicker sale.

They very well could have done that to some of the Short Block, H.D. Clover Leaf Truck Engines and sold the Block and Pistons separately or any number of options like that.

I bought a T-10 4 Speed from them that was tagged "Ford Case", which I am sure they pulled the '61-'62 Close Ratio Guts out of a GM Case and put it in a Ford pattern '63-'64 Case, because there was more demand for the common 3 Speed Bolt pattern Late T-10 4 Speeds.

[cabforward]

How were engine blocks seralized? I am wondering what made them a PS(supercharged yes but when and how did the workers on the line know what to stamp the block) . When did they get stamped? Was it after assembly or after it was decked. Were the engine numbers in order, what serial number came after the PS3788. Was it a p or v or???
I am a manufacturing engineer and this kind of stuff is interesting to me.

[starliner62]

I have a complete engine out of a 57 Golden Hawk, less the supercharger. I'll take a look at the engine number this afternoon. It does run, but needs an overhaul.

[packardHawk58]

The ad from southeast Studebaker said leather on the 400 interior. I assume this is why 5300. I think all the interior stainless is in good shape and not creased.

A very labour intensive trim with the small pleated seat runs, a lot of sowing!

I presume it is a white trim car?

[Skip Lackie]

That is all True Skip for Short Blocks and Full blocks.

The confusion comes possibly as SN-60 found out, when you find THE MOST common replacement engine, a Block and Pistons Assy. with a cloverleaf stamp.

A HUGE amount of these Full Flow 259 & 289 Blocks with only Core Plugs, Cam Bearings, Pistons and Rings were made AFTER the Assembly Line shutdown in Dec. '63 for Plant 8 Parts Depot Stock.

At Frost and French Studebaker in L.A. in the early 1970's we got Pallet Loads of these from Newman & Altman/Avanti Parts Corp. the price was $50.00 each.

If some had a Cloverleaf (which I think they DID) the only Semi H.D. Part they would have would be the Chrome top Rings, since none of the H.D. Parts were included.

Unless you worked in the South Bend Warehouse then, it is now impossible to know what really happened.

N&A were famous for stripping Assemblies left from the Final Line or just more complete, and selling off the pieces for more money and a quicker sale.

They very well could have done that to some of the Short Block, H.D. Clover Leaf Truck Engines and sold the Block and Pistons separately or any number of options like that.

I bought a T-10 4 Speed from them that was tagged "Ford Case", which I am sure they pulled the '61-'62 Close Ratio Guts out of a GM Case and put it in a Ford pattern '63-'64 Case, because there was more demand for the common 3 Speed Bolt pattern Late T-10 4 Speeds.

Thanks Rich. There is a danger in relying too much on published sources -- history can be modifying by those who came along after the material was written.

[56H-Y6]

Hi

There will be considerable demand for the '56 Packard 374ci with the dual four barrel carburetors by V8 Packard enthusiasts. You should make it available for sale through the two Packard club websites and the PackardInfo forum.

Steve

[64V-K7]

Cabforward: Referring back to when the you mentioned the 352 in your car. Just for an information point, because of the weight of the 352, the 56J hawks were manufactured with a heavier gauge frame. Having that engine in a 57HK chassis even for a limited time, may have been somewhat of a stretch for the 57 chassis limits. Joe Hall can chime in on this one. Make sure your frame is thoroughly gone over for any cracks around the front suspension area. There were issues in 56/57, etc?

[Skip Lackie]

How were engine blocks seralized? I am wondering what made them a PS(supercharged yes but when and how did the workers on the line know what to stamp the block) . When did they get stamped? Was it after assembly or after it was decked. Were the engine numbers in order, what serial number came after the PS3788. Was it a p or v or???
I am a manufacturing engineer and this kind of stuff is interesting to me.

The following answer is partly fact and partly speculation. We know for sure that standard-duty 289 engines were assembled for "stock" and pulled as necessary. We know this because: (1) interviews with retired workers, and (2) engine serial numbers do not follow in sequence with vehicle serial numbers -- engines were pulled randomly from stock. Body tubs and truck cabs were treated the same way.

We also know that to simplify production, similar/identical vehicles were often built in bunches. So it may be safe to assume that non-standard engines, like supercharged engines, were probably built and serial-stamped in small batches. So it's likely that your original engine was built in a batch of identical engines, serialized consecutively. That said, the bare blocks themselves may have been pulled randomly from stock. Presumably the serial numbers were stamped after assembly, though that's just a guess on my part. Would be interested to know if any of the above is off the mark.

[Pat Dilling]

Cabforward: Referring back to when the you mentioned the 352 in your car. Just for an information point, because of the weight of the 352, the 56J hawks were manufactured with a heavier gauge frame. Having that engine in a 57HK chassis even for a limited time, may have been somewhat of a stretch for the 57 chassis limits. Joe Hall can chime in on this one. Make sure your frame is thoroughly gone over for any cracks around the front suspension area. There were issues in 56/57, etc?

Not sure if the engine weight difference is really significant. Packard 352 weighs about 700 pounds, Studebaker 289 weighs 650, then add the weight of the supercharger, brackets, pulleys, and tensioner and the installed weights will be within 10-15 pounds of each other. And with the front mounted supercharger, weight is even further forward with the Studebaker motor.

[64V-K7]

Not sure if the engine weight difference is really significant. Packard 352 weighs about 700 pounds, Studebaker 289 weighs 650, then add the weight of the supercharger, brackets, pulleys, and tensioner and the installed weights will be within 10-15 pounds of each other. And with the front mounted supercharger, weight is even further forward with the Studebaker motor.

Granted, I did not know the exact weight of the Packard... but they still used a heavier gauge frame..

[cabforward]

wow those are beautiful. Is it power windows or ash trey hole on the door panel. Who did the work?

[SN-60]

Not sure if the engine weight difference is really significant. Packard 352 weighs about 700 pounds, Studebaker 289 weighs 650, then add the weight of the supercharger, brackets, pulleys, and tensioner and the installed weights will be within 10-15 pounds of each other. And with the front mounted supercharger, weight is even further forward with the Studebaker motor.

Wrong,..... the Packard V8 is considerably longer than the Stude (about 4").....and that extra length is all GOOD OLD AMERICAN CAST IRON!!