Cool/Heat: Bad Frost plug hole

[cwsimpson]

When I got the first frost out of my '55 259 V8- only about 1/2-2/3 of the chamfer was left! When I put the brass plug in, I noted that it was a little loose in there, so I gave it a slightly bigger dimple- still didn't seal. I can tell that this might be a bit of bugger to seal. I need some expert help. Maybe I dimpled the plug too much, or maybe just the fact that the lip isn't there will be creating BIG problems.... Anyone out there have experience with such an issue? Thanks in advance to anyone who can assist here. I need your help.

Thanks.
cws

[cwsimpson]

Above thread should have read "When I got the frost plug out...."
Thanks

[rstrasser]

cwsimpson;
At one time there was available a core plug that had a toggle on the back and the plug had a lip that sealed on the outside of the hole with a gasket. Easy to install and they did not leak. I had them many years ago on my 55. The other choice is the Dorman brass plugs.
Ron

[karterfred88]

Core plugs (frost/freeze plugs) are always a pain, especially with the engine in the car. If you are only doing one, out of necessity, I suggest using the "expansion" style with rubber seal and a nut to tighten it up in the hole. "No shelf" to stop the plug is common, they depended on an interference fit of the cup side to seal. Tapping a new one in from under the car, adding a sealer and dimpling the center to hold properly is tough. Try one of these most auto parts stores carry them, and they work well-till the next plug goes out. http://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearc...nsion%2520Plug

[BILT4ME]

Buy a new Dorman brass plug and install it flush to the OUTSIDE of the block. That should take care of it. Don't use the rubber plug unless it's an emergency temporary fix only.

I had one blow out on an old 6 cylinder. The giant cloud the truck makes going down the highway in 10°F weather is really impressive when it blows ALL the coolant onto the exhaust pipe!

[jclary]

Core plugs (frost/freeze plugs) are always a pain, especially with the engine in the car. If you are only doing one, out of necessity, I suggest using the "expansion" style with rubber seal and a nut to tighten it up in the hole. "No shelf" to stop the plug is common, they depended on an interference fit of the cup side to seal. Tapping a new one in from under the car, adding a sealer and dimpling the center to hold properly is tough. Try one of these most auto parts stores carry them, and they work well-till the next plug goes out. http://www.dormanproducts.com/gsearc...nsion%2520Plug

Gee...they have everything else...you mean Studebaker International don't have replacement Holes?

Really, when I saw this thread, I thought of what karterfred88 posted. Try that and let us know.

[gordr]

Studebaker used two styles of core plugs, the disc style, which relies upon a stepped hole to support the rim of the plug when you dimple the center to expand it, and the cup style, which is a simple press fit into a smooth-walled hole. '55 should have the stepped holes, not sure when the changeover occurred, but full-flow blocks use the cup style plugs. Simplest solution is to use a rubber expanding plug, which work fine and last for years. Or install a block heater in that hole.

[Buzzard]

gordr
I'm sure John Clary is saying " What is a block heater?" I agree the rubber plug type is great for a temporary repair. I have dimpled the openings with a punch and used a good sealer like Gasgacinch. Good Luck!
Bill

[jclary]

gordr
I'm sure John Clary is saying " What is a block heater?" I agree the rubber plug type is great for a temporary repair. I have dimpled the openings with a punch and used a good sealer like Gasgacinch. Good Luck!
Bill

Well...not an item getting "over-used" in this part of the world. But, back in one of my (too many) enterprises...my Freightliner with its Caterpillar engine had one. It came in handy for long winter nights stranded in a Buffalo, N.Y. lake effect snowbank, or delivering equipment to a Casino on the shores of Lake Superior.

[greyben]

I used the rubber expansion plugs in a '64 Cruiser and never had a problem. The car had an automatic and air and was driven fairly hard in a hot climate so it had ample opportunity to overheat and build up pressure.

[cwsimpson]

I used the rubber expansion plugs in a '64 Cruiser and never had a problem. The car had an automatic and air and was driven fairly hard in a hot climate so it had ample opportunity to overheat and build up pressure.

Thanks everyone for the ideas. Since this is the first time I've wrestled with these, not sure how the rubber plug fits if you have a partial recessed lip. I can see how it might work with a full lip around the hole, just not sure how it would fit in there where there isn't any lip, or do you just "goop 'er up"? I'd like to use the brass plug if I can get it to seal. Do you have to hit it "just right" or something? I puckered the first one pretty good with a 1/2" carriage bolt head and it dimpled pretty deeply but to me it still looked like it didn't really go any place. This car definetly uses the first type of disks they had. I can see where the lip might be necessary to help flatten the disk, just thought maybe I could cheat a little and get the brass to go.
Thanks again for the input. jclary, I'll definitely look at the other referenced posts.
cws

[karterfred88]

Thanks everyone for the ideas. Since this is the first time I've wrestled with these, not sure how the rubber plug fits if you have a partial recessed lip. I can see how it might work with a full lip around the hole, just not sure how it would fit in there where there isn't any lip, or do you just "goop 'er up"? I'd like to use the brass plug if I can get it to seal. Do you have to hit it "just right" or something? I puckered the first one pretty good with a 1/2" carriage bolt head and it dimpled pretty deeply but to me it still looked like it didn't really go any place. This car definetly uses the first type of disks they had. I can see where the lip might be necessary to help flatten the disk, just thought maybe I could cheat a little and get the brass to go.
Thanks again for the input. jclary, I'll definitely look at the other referenced posts.
cws

The rubber conforms to smooth area of the cast hole and squeezes tight by tightening the nut, just need the right diameter one. Will work on either style block.

[cwsimpson]

The rubber conforms to smooth area of the cast hole and squeezes tight by tightening the nut, just need the right diameter one. Will work on either style block.

karterfred-
I understand the general principle- just don't how it works with a partial lip. Do you have to grind down the remaining part of the lip or can you just insert it in the hole, tighten it up and the rubber expands toward the hole cover, forming a partial gasket? Not looking forward to chunking out the remaining part of the lip. I am sure I'm just not getting it here- no problem understanding how it work with a good lip or a round hole. Just not sure if it would expand enough to cover an eight of an inch gap 1/3 around the inner circumference. I'm not being negative, just not sure this would work.
Thanks for any additional info.
cws

[StudeRich]

I think your best bet is to get a Good Seal Installer Tool (the kind with the long ball swivel handle to accept different sizes of drivers) to drive the Domed 1 1/2 Inch Brass Core Plug absolutely FLAT! That is the trick, any "Dimpling" in or out, will ruin the job.

You have to keep in mind that the "Seal" is dependent on the Very THIN Iron edge between the outside surface of the Block and the Shelf/Ridge that is damaged, so the broken Ridge is not as big a deal as it may seem.

Of course thoroughly CLEAN the surfaces and use good Permatex #2 Sealant.


The "Other" problem case is on the Full Flow Blocks, when you find what I have on replacing the CUP type Core Plugs, where portions of the Ridge from the Old configuration still remain because they did not fully cut them out which keeps you from getting a good amount of the sides of the Cup sealed on the Block and a flush install.

[karterfred88]

karterfred-
I understand the general principle- just don't how it works with a partial lip. Do you have to grind down the remaining part of the lip or can you just insert it in the hole, tighten it up and the rubber expands toward the hole cover, forming a partial gasket? Not looking forward to chunking out the remaining part of the lip. I am sure I'm just not getting it here- no problem understanding how it work with a good lip or a round hole. Just not sure if it would expand enough to cover an eight of an inch gap 1/3 around the inner circumference. I'm not being negative, just not sure this would work.
Thanks for any additional info.
cws

Clean off the rust, get a size that expands beyond the round area, and deep enough to pass just into the hollow area, it will easily cover up the rough area, and even balloon out behind and past it. Tighten it up it will seal-take our word for it, used my first (and only, thankfully) on my 63 Hawk in 1968-over 100,000 miles of abuse after installing -never leaked. They've been around for 50 plus years because they work. Secret is to get the size that just barely fits the round part going in.