Engine: Engine swap questions for a 1956 Super Clipper from a Noob

[TwoBryans]

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my post. If it is more appropriate in a different section, please move it accordingly. Is anyone aware of anyone that offers any conversion parts for any engine swaps for these cars? Would like to change mine over to a more updated style engine(hope this does not offend anyone). For the most part, I am a purist type of guy, but for this particular car, I am thinking an updated swap. Would love your input and suggestions.

[Packard8]

I'm not aware of any "bolt in kits", but any fabricator should be able to install a GM 350 crate engine & trans without much hassle. There is a lot of room there to accommodate the smaller GM engine. The Packard 352 & 374 V8's are great engines when a few modern updates are applied, mainly an upgraded oil pump. The weak point of the car was the Ultramatic trans, mostly due to lack of proper service and adjustment. There are trans adapters to mate modern GM trannies to the Packard V8. One member here, Jack Vines specializes in rebuilding Packard V8's to stock or higher levels for a reasonable price. You might want to consider keeping the upgraded Packard engine with a modern trans behind it.

[TwoBryans]

Thanks so much for the response! I am trying to determine what to do with the car. The guy I bought it from said it belonged to a relative of his that stopped driving it due to health reasons and that the car ran and drove fine when it was parked about 4 years ago. However, I had a friend check it over and he says the engine is seized and he cannot get it to break loose and turn.

I was thinking it may be a more cost effective thing to convert the engine or engine and trans to something else. However, I do not want to bury myself in the car and just wanted to make the car a fun an comfortable driver. For me being old and fat, that would require getting it running and driving reliable, adding ac and upgrading the brakes in addition to just making sure the suspension, brakes and electrical would be reliable for a weekend toy. Here is a rendering a friend did of the car as it appears now with a few upgrades I wanted to do to it.

I'm not aware of any "bolt in kits", but any fabricator should be able to install a GM 350 crate engine & trans without much hassle. There is a lot of room there to accommodate the smaller GM engine. The Packard 352 & 374 V8's are great engines when a few modern updates are applied, mainly an upgraded oil pump. The weak point of the car was the Ultramatic trans, mostly due to lack of proper service and adjustment. There are trans adapters to mate modern GM trannies to the Packard V8. One member here, Jack Vines specializes in rebuilding Packard V8's to stock or higher levels for a reasonable price. You might want to consider keeping the upgraded Packard engine with a modern trans behind it.

[6hk71400]

There is a guy in San Diego that has information about a 440 mopar that fits well and looks like it should be there. If you would like I can see if I can find information on this swap. Nothing against the bow tie but you do need some beef to move all that metal.

Bob Miles
Tucson AZ
Home of 6 Volt Paradise

[TwoBryans]

I am certainly open to all options. However, I would like to do something with enough power to get out of it's own way and realistic fuel economy. Maybe something LS based was my first thought, but like I said, I am open to other things.

There is a guy in San Diego that has information about a 440 mopar that fits well and looks like it should be there. If you would like I can see if I can find information on this swap. Nothing against the bow tie but you do need some beef to move all that metal.

Bob Miles
Tucson AZ
Home of 6 Volt Paradise

[Packard8]

I agree that a Mopar 440 would look better than a Chebby "belly-button" engine and move the car better. But the big Packard engine looks just right to me. There are brake upgrades available (the Bendix Treadle Vac is known for catastrophic failures).

Lots of good info on upgrades here:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/

[TwoBryans]

Thanks so much! I really appreciate any and all insight. Would love to make some decisions and get moving on it so I can enjoy it!

I agree that a Mopar 440 would look better than a Chebby "belly-button" engine and move the car better. But the big Packard engine looks just right to me. There are brake upgrades available (the Bendix Treadle Vac is known for catastrophic failures).

Lots of good info on upgrades here:

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/

[PackardV8]

Congrats in seeing the possibilities in the Packard. They're certainly rare and unique.

However, I do not want to bury myself in the car and just wanted to make the car a fun an comfortable driver. I was thinking it may be a more cost effective thing to convert the engine or engine and trans to something else. However, I do not want to bury myself in the car and just wanted to make the car a fun an comfortable driver. For me being old and fat, that would require getting it running and driving reliable, adding ac and upgrading the brakes in addition to just making sure the suspension, brakes and electrical would be reliable for a weekend toy.

The reality is an old fat guy who's going to have to pay a professional to upgrade the engine transmission, brakes and electrical is already "buried" in this sort of project and "cost-effective" is a non-operative term in building a custom car. From experience, decide if you love it enough to not count the cost and not to look back and not expect to ever get back more than 25%-50% of the sunk costs.

As to what engine to use, the Packard V8 is not the problem. Rebuilding it will certainly be less expensive than the cost of buying and/or rebuilding a later V8 and then paying for the conversion. Today, most agree an overdrive automatic is the way to go and swap kits are available, so actual transmission cost is a wash.

Should you decide to go for the engine swap, the Packard V8 is as long, tall and heavy as any passenger car OHV8. Literally anything will fit in the Packard engine bay. The only caveat is it's a rear sump oil pan, so that's a must. So look at later big block engines to which the overdrive came attached or will bolt in. The big block Fords, Chevys and Mopars were sometimes used in trucks after they were NLA in cars.

Again, welcome and have fun with your new toy.

jack vines

[TwoBryans]

Much appreciated! I have loved them for years. Just never found one rough enough, but still nice enough to do something like this with it. Could not bring myself to do what I want to do to a really nice example.

Congrats in seeing the possibilities in the Packard. They're certainly rare and unique.



The reality is an old fat guy who's going to have to pay a professional to upgrade the engine transmission, brakes and electrical is "buried" in this sort of project. From experience, decide if you love it enough to not count the cost and not to look back and not expect to ever get back more than 25%-50% of the sunk costs.

As to what engine to use, the Packard V8 is as long, tall and heavy as any passenger car OHV8. Literally anything will fit in the Packard engine bay. The only caveat is it's a rear sump oil pan, so that's a must.

Today, most agree an overdrive automatic is the way to go, so look at later big block engines to which the overdrive came attached or will bolt in. The big block Fords, Chevys and Mopars were sometimes used in trucks after they were NLA in cars.

Just as a point of reference, compare the cost of new crate engines the the $3495 it costs to completely rebuild the Packard V8 with all new wear parts.

jack vines

[karterfred88]

You say you don't want to bury yourself with this. Used engine, crate engine, rebuilt or used trans, new drive shaft, fab cut and modify new exhaust etc., etc., etc. Me I'd try to figure out why engine "seized", Pour ATF into every cylinder and let it sit a couple of days, replace the battery cables with new clean ones, new battery, leave the plugs out, try spinning again, refill cylinders. If, in fact, it was running before, and not stored in a river since, I'd bet it will "unstick" pretty easily. Doesn't mean it will run right, but maybe well enough to try it, then make a decision.

[TwoBryans]

Well, actually, I do not believe the seller was as honest as he claimed to be. Rocker cover was pulled(just as a quick easy, but limited internal inspection) and engine is super clean inside. However, ATF and Marvel Mystery Oil have both been in he cylinders for a couple months and with a 3/4 inch breaker bar with a 5' pipe have intermittently been put on the crank pulley multiple times over those months and as recently as last week and it will not budge. Originally, I was hoping it was that simple. Unfortunately, it does not appear so. That is why I posted here because I doubt the original engine with whatever problem it has and the potential transmission problems that will eventually arise do not make it worth dealing with at this point as much as I would have liked to kept the original engine and trans.

You say you don't want to bury yourself with this. Used engine, crate engine, rebuilt or used trans, new drive shaft, fab cut and modify new exhaust etc., etc., etc. Me I'd try to figure out why engine "seized", Pour ATF into every cylinder and let it sit a couple of days, replace the battery cables with new clean ones, new battery, leave the plugs out, try spinning again, refill cylinders. If, in fact, it was running before, and not stored in a river since, I'd bet it will "unstick" pretty easily. Doesn't mean it will run right, but maybe well enough to try it, then make a decision.

[SN-60]

Consider a 400 CI small block Chevrolet V8 of mid seventies vintage.....an extremely reliable, light, and 'torquey' engine, coupled to a GM TH 400 or 700R4 overdrive you'd end up with the car Packard should have built!

[TwoBryans]

I really appreciate the input! I actually have a couple of those and have contemplated doing that, but felt that the engine compartment was so big that it would look like a miniblock(LOL!) rather than a small block whenever I opened the hood and those really don't get all that great fuel economy as some other options would.

Please keep those suggestions coming! Especially if anyone has any experience with or knowledge of anyone that offers mounts and other components that might make something more of a bolt-in situation. I have been an ASE Certified Master Technician most of my adult life, but have never been a good fabricator as much as I did have that talent.

Consider a 400 CI small block Chevrolet V8 of mid seventies vintage.....an extremely reliable, light, and 'torquey' engine, coupled to a GM TH 400 or 700R4 overdrive you'd end up with the car Packard should have built!

[PackardV8]

Consider a 400 CI small block Chevrolet V8 of mid seventies vintage.....an extremely reliable, light, and 'torquey' engine, coupled to a GM TH 400 or 700R4 overdrive you'd end up with the car Packard should have built!

But there's the rest of the story; some of us remember after Packard ceased production, Chevrolet commissioned an engineering study group and assigned a project number to considering the acquisition of the Packard V8 design and tooling. This because they were of the opinion the SBC wasn't the engine they wanted hauling around their two-ton-plus cars. The "not-invented-here" mentality prevailed and Chevy spent several years debugging their own big block design.

jack vines

[TwoBryans]

Interesting information! Thanks so much for sharing!

But there's the rest of the story; some of us remember after Packard ceased production, Chevrolet commissioned an engineering study group and assigned a project number to considering the acquisition of the Packard V8 design and tooling. This because they were of the opinion the SBC wasn't the engine they wanted hauling around their two-ton-plus cars. The "not-invented-here" mentality prevailed and Chevy spent several years debugging their own big block design.

jack vines