Engine: 289 cam gear alignment

[50pete]

Hi all, I know first thing i'll be told "buy a manual", have one for the body(53 c) but not the drive train(64 289 auto). I've found several drawings of the can gear mark splitting the crank gear marks, but is that #1 UDC or #6?. bought this as a non running project, got it running but rough. Rebuilt the dizzy(worn bushings, advance weights, etc), still rough & seemed rich, black smoke, black plugs, cleaned & jetted the edlebrock 1405. The black smoke was gone, still rough. The P.O. told me he did some work on the engine & i checked the locking tab on the crank bolt, not locked. So i pulled it apart, new aluminum cam gear. When the marks split each other there's no valve clearance on #1 have clearance on #6. when the cam gear mark is @ 12:00
& crank marks are @ 12:00 I have valve clearance on #1. Is this correct? Thanks in advance, Pete

[BobPalma]

Yes it is, Pete. BP

[50pete]

Well that makes me wonder if the rough idle in a lope from a big cam, the P.O. did tell me he changed the cam. Compression is 118 to 124, low vacuum barely 10" @ idle comes up to 22" upon acceleration. I know there were no vacuum leaks, i have a small oxy/propane torch set with a hose & a small tip. With just the propane turned on, went poking around the intake & carb base with it idling, no change in engine speed. I pulled the intake to drill the cast valley cover for a pcv set up, no evidence of a leak. Looks like I'm gonna have to get a degree wheel(already have the indicator) so I can identify this thing. I know i'll have more questions when that happens, so thanks in advance. Pete

[StudeRich]

The Timing Marks on all V8's fit together, the Cam Gear at 6:00 and the Crank Gear at 12:00.

You may want to check the Valve adjustment and Ignition Timing if unknown.

Try testing the Fuel Pressure for excessive.

[50pete]

fuel pump pressure was 3 to 4 psi, no matter where the distributor was at it was rough.
valve clearance @ .025 cold. Would there be any ID marks on the end of the cam, haven't pulled the gear?

[StudeRich]

You could ask Phil Harris at Fairborn Studebaker if there is a way to I.D. the most common Cam upgrade/regrind, his R2 Plus Cam.
But of course there is no telling whose it is, best to Degree it.

[50pete]

When the marks are aligned as Rich stated above is #1 @ UDC? This is not, # 6 is(both valves fully closed).

[Mike Van Veghten]

Pete -

If you are interested...I have one "adjustable gear drive" left (out of 20). You can adjust the crank to cam timing (in the + or - direction) down to about .7 degrees. This will allow you to advance the cam to gain back some of that lost low rpm power. You can continue to experiment to achieve the best power with any cam you put into the engine. No keys to mess with.
I had these built a couple of years ago to help the guys with the roller cams dial the cams in to achieve the best power curve.

The only item that might be a little strange, is that you get a machined (two piece) front cover that has no provision for a mechanical fuel pump. You can also change the cam timing without disturbing that delicate gasket seal at the "filler" block in the oil pan.

The assembly consists of the following -
1. Machined, two piece front cover.
2. Aluminum cam hub.
3. Hardened cam gear.
4. Hardened crank gear.
5. All required fasteners and seals (all easily store bought).
6. Complete instructions.

I've got one in my daily driver 259 in my soon to be running 54 Conestoga.

Mike

See here, last two pictures -

http://public.fotki.com/-Mike-/studebaker-roller-cams/

[Deaf Mute]

# 1 is up and ready to fire (or has) we run them advanced.

[bezhawk]

As you may have surmised, when the timing marks are aligned, #6 is at top dead center, Not #1.

[50pete]

If that's the case the cam is 180 out. Turning the crank clockwise, as marks start to line up the exhaust valve is closing(on #1) when they are inline the exhaust valve is still open a little, turn more the intake starts opening. Any thoughts?

[50pete]

Thanks bezhawk, that's the clarification I was looking for. Back to getting the degree wheel.

[StudeRich]

When the marks are aligned as Rich stated above is #1 @ UDC? This is not, # 6 is(both valves fully closed).

As you may have surmised, when the timing marks are aligned, #6 is at top dead center, Not #1.

Wait a minute Pete, I thought you agreed with Bez in this prior Post?

It seems to be correct, NO?

[50pete]

Yes it seems to be correct #6 @ UDC when marks are aligned as you stated earlier.
Seems strange, everything I've worked on when timing marks are aligned it's on #1 TDC. That's where the confusion was. My 8:47 post was after I read deaf mutes post.

[Dwain G.]

This exact question may appear in the Co-Operator Column in a month or two. You have to think of valve timing and ignition timing as two separate operations that require the engine to rotate to different positions.