Engine: Tips for 289 build for mileage/reliability? Planning stage, future project.

[mausersmth]

Don't get too excited, everyone. My Cruiser is still waiting for it's front end rebuild, and that gets priority over any new project. Still, it's too cold to turn wrenches today!

Thinking of building a 289 and taking advantage of any improvements that might be made, things learned from a half century of tinkering with these iron blocks. Reliability would be the top priority, this is intended for a daily driver. Economy at highway speed is the second priority. A little rumble in the exhaust would be a nice touch, but not something to sacrifice for. Probable tranny would be a 700R4 type overdrive automatic.

I see this as a long term project, probably spread over 2 - 5 years. Considering modern ignition, fuel injection, would consider other mods as needed.

Any thoughts, Guys?

[StudeRich]

I can see why no one has tackled this one! This is a pretty hard call, improve the Reliability and Mileage of a 289 Engine?

Internally:

(1) 1685777 Avanti/H.D. Truck Aluminum Cam Gear

(2) There are still a few sets of Original Avanti Type Clevite 77 Tri-metal Rod bearings left (NLA)

(3) Maybe a set or Two of main Bearings in same type are left if you check all Stude. Vendors.
Both about 3 times the price of Std. but worth it to those who run hard or long.

(4) Hardened (for unleaded) Exhaust Valve Seats

(5) H.D. Avanti Stainless Steel Stelite Tipped Intake & Exhaust Valves

(6) Quality North American made, name brand Chrome Rings for re-bore, Cast Iron for re-Ring

Externally:

Just the usual best stuff:
Pertronixs Electronic Ignition System or Dave Thibeault New Distributor.

A Real Carter Original type Fuel Pump rebuilt with Alcohol resistant soft parts.

Good Quality solid core resistence shielded Plug Wires.

Edelbrock 500 cfm Electric choke AFB Clone.

Modified 2 Brl. Intake Manifold to fit AFB type base.

New H.D. V-8 water Pump.

GM Factory type 3 wire Delcotron Alternator, no brainless wiring, 1 Wire type.

Modified Alt. Mounting Bracket.

R1 Avanti low restriction, high performance non-clogging type (closed face) Air Cleaner.

New Front and Rear Engine Mounts, Batt. Cables, Belts and Hoses

Then you will have reliability, if the Engine is assembled by a Stude. expert.
The Mileage thing, not so much!
An easily driven new 4 Brl. Carb. may improve the Mileage over a worn 2 Brl. by 2 to 4 MPG, MAYBE!

[sweetolbob]

I'll add to Rich's post the concept of EFI for engine and tranny control. FAST, Holley, Edelbrock, MSD and others make EFI systems that will work on the Stude engines but cost is $2000 or so. Even better, Holley and Edelbrock units will handle timing if you can modify a GM small EFI/HEI distributor to fit.

I used both 700R4 and 200R4s in my Studebakers (SBC Powered) but if I were to do it again I'd use a 4L60E style which is the EFI controlled 700R4. I'd control it with an aftermarket EFI controller at $600 or so and eliminate the pesky TV cable adjustment and then not have to worry about the carb/injection setup needing to handle the limitations of the TV cable.

That would give you the 2000 and up technology and driveabilily in your Studebaker. Not cheap but it would run, perform and get the best mileage possible.

Oh!, and no vapor lock.

Bob

[mausersmth]

Always felt the Studebaker V8 was a tough engine to start with. Add to that 60 years of learning about and living with them, I see no reason why a car can't be built around one of these engines and driven in daily service.

[Chucks Stude]

What about pistons? Have there been any improvements to them? I have heard of people getting sets of hypereutectic pistons made for their cars. Any advantage to these?

[StudeRich]

What about pistons? Have there been any improvements to them? I have heard of people getting sets of hypereutectic pistons made for their cars. Any advantage to these?

Yes all of us Stude. Vendors have been selling those for years, I have not noticed any difference. I believe they are round now instead of the original egg shape before warm up.

Fuel Injection would be the best thing you could do to put the Stude. into the 21st. Century and improve Mileage, however I think it is way too expensive and I don't see the reliability being any better when you have to have it towed to a Shop with a Computer analizer to fix it, and it DOES happen!

I would rather spend that same money on a Propane Conversion and forget about lousy Fuel issues forever and it could run about 3 lifetimes before needing Major Service, let your Great Grandkids worry about it!

[Studebakercenteroforegon]

Typically, any aluminum piston alloy is about 17 - 19% silicon and is thus hypereutectic - namely has more silicon than can be normally absorbed into the grain structure. These alloys are strong and have low thermal expansion characteristics. All Studebaker 289" pistons that I know of that are available through Studebaker parts vendors are indeed hypereutectic alloy pistons.

[Charlie D]

Charles,

I have been rebuilding my 259 for over a year now. I have had to do it as the money came in. One thing that you may consider doing is porting and polishing the heads. I saw several threads on the subject that were saying it would increase the efficiency of the engine. I never dreamed of trying it myself but ended up doing it. Mike Van Veghten’s threads on the subject was the inspiration I needed and he blessed me greatly by coaching me during the process.

Charlie D.

[rockne10]

For fuel economy, no matter what you are doing to your engine, tall gears are your friend; unless you are climbing mountains. A 3.07 rear will give great mileage and flight-like speed on the flat; not good for smoking the rubber.

[PackardV8]

Agree with all of Rich's recommendations except #6.

(6) Quality North American made, name brand Chrome Rings for re-bore, Cast Iron for re-Ring

I won't use chrome rings in anything. Moly rings and hypereutectic pistions are my choice.

jack vines

[Mike Van Veghten]

For milage (and good driveability) -

1. A good cylinder head port and seat cleanup. Do some (have someone) do some cleanup work to both the intake and exhaust ports. A three angle seat configuration will aid the port work and go a long way toward drivability and milage. Remove all sharp edges, make nice large raduii on in as many areas as possible. This goes for the combustion chamber also. Most people forget the chamber, it's just as much as part of the total equation as the ports..!

2. R3 Intake valves and standard exhaust valves. The exhaust valves are more than large enough in their stock form to do the job. I don't enlarge the exhaust even with race porting..!

3. Assuming this car will actually be driven (the overdrive trans), hard exhaust seats may be a good bet.

4. A stock four barrel intake manifold (or modified two barrel, into a four barrel configuration). Match that with a 500cfm Edelbrock (or other brand) carburetor. 500cfm is more than enough for a street engine.

5. No more than an R2 camshaft. Fiber gear has worked fine for many years, no need to go to the expense of the aluminum gear. A cam matching, set of new valve springs also.

6. A good set of cast iron rings (moly coated if possible). Depending on the oversize, (the company) Total Seal makes a very good ring. If you go to .062" over, I know they have them (!!). Buy oversize so you can "file to fit". This "file to fit", also goes a long way toward your goal...milage, driveability, longevity AND power.

7. Choose a good machine shop to perform proper machine work on the block, crank, heads, (and assembly ?).
In most cases, a cheaper shop will return that same type work, don't cheap out on the shop.
AND....as long as they have a good reputation, they DON'T nesessarily need to "know" the Stude engine. They just need to know where to go to get the correct numbers. A good shop will know this.

8. Unless you already have a transmission, might think about the T200-4R rather than the 700-R4. The 200 has better gear ratios and is a ligher weight trans. Done with care, they are more than strong enough to handle the hp of any Stude engine. I've got one for my 299 Stude engine for my Conestoga, that hopefully will show some good times on the drag strip..!

9. Last but not least, pay attention to the details, even the small details. You'll be happier with the outcome if you and your machine shop proceed with this attitude.

Good luck, have fun.

Mike

[mausersmth]

I would rather spend that same money on a Propane Conversion and forget about lousy Fuel issues forever and it could run about 3 lifetimes before needing Major Service, let your Great Grandkids worry about it!

Decades ago I saw an engine from a propane delivery truck opened up. It was as clean as a fresh rebuild! no sludge or gunk anywhere!
I understand propane would allow for higher compression too, as well as cleaner exhaust.

[mausersmth]

For milage (and good driveability) -

9. Last but not least, pay attention to the details, even the small details. You'll be happier with the outcome if you and your machine shop proceed with this attitude.

Good luck, have fun.

Mike

Details, I agree that is vital!
* I like your tip about cleaning up the ports and chambers of the heads. I assume I should have my target compression ratio in mind when I start this job.
* Oversize cast iron rings, filed back to fit the bore they'll work in! Talk about minding the details! This is craftmanship!

I love the advice coming in! Thanks to everyone, I'm sure others will find this thread usefull for years to come.
Keep it coming!

[Mike Van Veghten]

A. Charles -

Yea...ring detail ISN'T just for racing. It just plain works as soon as the engine fires. The original performance will last longer as the miles roll on also.

If you're interested...here's some photos of what you can do to Stude heads.

http://public.fotki.com/-Mike-/

Click on the cylinder head folders, double click to enlarge each photo.

Mike

[StudeRich]

Decades ago I saw an engine from a propane delivery truck opened up. It was as clean as a fresh rebuild! no sludge or gunk anywhere!
I understand propane would allow for higher compression too, as well as cleaner exhaust.

That is all true. The Oil does not even look dirty & it's NOT, although it may have picked up some acid or lost some of it's additives and should be changed every year or two.

You could easily run 10.25 to 1, Stock Avanti flat top Pistons in your 289 with no detonation problems at all, that way you could regain some of the Performance lost hauling the heavier fuel tank and running a bit less BTU fuel than Gasoline, but with more Octane.

I too, had a couple of prior Positive experiences with LPG.