Engine: How bad is it?

[RadCruiser]

Alright, so the engine seemed to run alright, besides the crack in the carb and the oil leak from the rear main. So we finally decided to rip out the motor to do the main seal. We take the engine out, without too much trouble, just getting the tranny stuck on the dowels, but nothing major there.


I figured since we had the motor out, Id give it a good cleaning and I would paint the block so I started scrubbing, everything was caked on with oil (from a previously huge leak on both the rocker covers). I start to clean on around the freeze of plugs and notice one of them is indented very far in, but didn't seem to be cracked or leaky.

Figured I'd just knock it out and replace it since I didn't like that way that it looked....this is what I found when i removed the plug....

The previous owner told me that it sat for a few years and no one moved it before... I drove it around a few times and it never overheated.... I did flush out the radiator 2 times, but after running it for a while it was coming back up brown anyways. Even after just running the hose thru it for like 30 minutes.

Is this from the antifreeze?

When ever I saw old antifreeze it was always like brown, and this is black. Has some brown in it too when you dig deeper in there... but I don't know. I dug out as much as I could with a flat screwdriver but there is a ton more.... and I haven't even gotten to the water pump yet.

Figured I'd also take the valley cover off the in process and see how that looks and found this stuff

First I just thought it was oil, but when i tried to remove it, it was all gooey like clay or something.

No clue what that is, hope someone has an idea....

[tbirdtbird]

what u see behind the freeze plugs is very typical of old stuff. You didn't say what year, but possibly someone ran the old alcohol antifreeze or even just plain water for a while. You'd be surprised how many people will run just water saying, well it isn't winter so it doesn't matter, forgetting about the anti-corrosion properties of AF. In any even very typical of an older engine. If you have gone this far pop 'em all out and get in there with a pressure washer and clean all that crap out from between the cyls and the bottom of the water jacket.
The clay-like goo is left over from earlier days when non-detergent oil was used. Did you pull the pan yet? Bottom of the pan prolly has the same crap in it. I have scraped out a full inch of "clay" from a pan bottom.
Not to worry just clean it all up.
Once all is back together I'd fill up with fresh oil minus 1 qt, then add a qt of diesel fuel, which is a natural lubricant anyway (remember it has to lubricate the injector pump in a diesel), run it at idle for a good hr, then drain the whole mess and start over, new filter of course. This should help clean out areas you can't get to. Then change the oil and filter every 500 miles x 2.
Be very OCD about installing new freeze plugs, use Permatex #2 on them, after cleaning the block openings very thoroughly, do not over-install them, meaning you don't want to make them concave, just flat, else they start to get smaller.

[RadCruiser]

Thanks for replying so fast, it is a 64 and the previous guy said it sat for at least 6 years. Yes, your right about the clay stuff, there was a little on the top and probably about 1/4 inch on the bottom of the oil pain as well.
The other guys that helped me with the tear down said that the block was probably cracked and the gray goop was some kind of sealing additive for the oil to keep the engine from smoking (I never saw it smoke, and the temp gauge needle moves, and never went much over half way point). They told me I should have it hot tanked and also tested for cracks.... I really can't spend that much on it at once, and if it got to that point I might as well just redo the whole motor.

Would kerosene work with cleaning that goop out from the inside? Or would that damage anything?
Thank you for all the great info I will follow your directions to put it back together and adding the diesel.

[kmac530]

Tbird has it all covered there. I had even more of that sludge in my oil pan on my 232 when I pulled it to get the flywheel bolts. My sludge was deeper than the oil pick up screen. My entire screen was under the pan sludge.

As far as your topic: How bad is it? I would say the only bad thing I see is the way you have the engine chained with the chains routing OVER the valve covers! Connect it to the intake manifold bolts or use one of those lift plates that bolt in place of the carb.

[RadCruiser]

Tbird has it all covered there. I had even more of that sludge in my oil pan on my 232 when I pulled it to get the flywheel bolts. My sludge was deeper than the oil pick up screen. My entire screen was under the pan sludge.

As far as your topic: How bad is it? I would say the only bad thing I see is the way you have the engine chained with the chains routing OVER the valve covers! Connect it to the intake manifold bolts or use one of those lift plates that bolt in place of the carb.

Yeah... they just kinda figured it would be alright, so it chipped some paint on one side and squished the oil breather tube on the other side... we will reposition when we go to put it back in for sure.

Man, this made me feel a lot better I was already thinking where else I can find a 289 block.... let alone one with 40k miles on it.

[dnevin]

For the black stuff behind the plugs, look here:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?54843-Boy-y-all-weren-t-kiddin-...&highlight=sand

[tbirdtbird]

"The other guys that helped me with the tear down said that the block was probably cracked and the gray goop was some kind of sealing additive for the oil to keep the engine from smoking (I never saw it smoke, and the temp gauge needle moves, and never went much over half way point). They told me I should have it hot tanked and also tested for cracks.... "

If this ran and drove OK and it was only the rear seal that prompted you, then I disagree with all of the above. I've seen both situations (oil crud and coolant crud) countless times.
Kero will not hurt anything. I have a suction pump I use to suck up crap like this, both an electric one and the old fashioned plunger type used to suck up oil from inside canister type oil filter housings. Do whatever U have to do. Paper towels, rags, etc.

If you lift from at least 4 intake manifold bolts you'll be OK, you can make a sling from chain on each side of the manifold

use a socket as big as u can fit into the new freeze plug, place it over the plug with the closed side of the socket closest to the block, place a block of hardwood over the socket, and tap the plug perfectly flat, after u apply Permatex #2. others may have suggestions here

[hausdok]

That engine has been severely overheated and you've got water in the oii.

I'd say you've got a cracked block; if you're lucky, a cracked head.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[JeffDeWitt]

I kind of doubt that. We are talking about a Studebaker V8 here, many years ago I had lose coolant and it got so hot it quit running. After it cooled off and the leak was fixed I filled it up with water and drove on. Never had a bit of trouble with that engine.

As a matter of fact... any of you guys get a 63 259 from a burgundy and black 60 Hawk from Truett Ray about 25 years ago? When I drove that car into his pasture about the ONLY thing still working well was that engine.

[maxpower1954]

That engine has been severely overheated and you've got water in the oii.

I'd say you've got a cracked block; if you're lucky, a cracked head.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

I'm with Jeff - a few years ago some dumb ass (OK, it was me) left the radiator cap off my Avanti. 10 miles down the interstate the water temp redlined and I pulled off at an exit. The engine quit running as I stopped. After it cooled down and I refilled it from a near by truck stop it ran as well as before and runs today as great as it always has.

One tough engine, the Studebaker V-8. I would hate to see a SBC after a similar incident! Russ Farris

[tbirdtbird]

"That engine has been severely overheated and you've got water in the oii."

The clay-like consistency and the vintage argue against this

a cracked block/head and he'd be blowing coolant out of the radiator and/or white smoke out the tail pipe

[mbstude]

I've seen that gooey, grey "clay" like stuff in a few engines. My '57 Broadmoor had a very, very small amount under the rocker covers, and the '58 Commander I owned had quite a bit.

Never any signs of any engine problems. I just cleaned it up and went on with life.

Oh, and that crap in the water jackets is pretty much the norm. Spend about a full day poking around in each core plug hole with various pieces of wires and hooks, bent different ways, with high water pressure and get as much of that junk out of there as you can. Your cooling system will thank you.

[hausdok]

"That engine has been severely overheated and you've got water in the oii."

The clay-like consistency and the vintage argue against this

a cracked block/head and he'd be blowing coolant out of the radiator and/or white smoke out the tail pipe

Unless it occurs low below bottom dead center.

Mike O'Handley
Kenmore, Washington
hausdok@msn.com

[gordr]

That looks absolutely normal to me. Normal crud in the water jacket. Normal crud in the valley. Probably the same crud in the pan.

I have used a vacuum cleaner to suck up the crud from the lifter area after dislodging it with a screwdriver. Mucks up the hose something fierce, but it keeps the crud from going into the pan, and small shop vacs are now so cheap as to be almost disposable.

As the others suggest, rod out and pressure-wash the water jackets, and install new frost plugs. Don't forget to take out the drain plugs, too. They are probably rusted away to nearly nothing anyway, and will have to be replaced. Standard plumbing item, anyhow.

And it would be a good idea to remove the pan, clean it, and do the rear main seal and front seal.

[Dwain G.]

The grey gooey deposits are from the old leaded gas. It used to be present in all old engines, usually just in the bottom of the oil pan.
Once cleaned out it won't reappear with todays unleaded gas.