Engine: How do you identify babbitt type rods?

[52-fan]

Are the early Champion rods babbitt type? Joe has a set of 197584 rods in the box and I was looking at them and wondered how you can tell.
In any case, they are for sale if you need some. Pm me with an offer if you are interested. We can deliver to South Bend in May.

[jackb]

I believe Champions used the Babbit type rods at least up til 1941 and maybe later, include the Commanders.

[oilnsteel]

Babbited rods have the bearing cast in place.

[studegary]

The wise aXX answer to the title question is; look at them.

[Hallabutt]

Could be wrong, but believe that the Champ engine was an all new concept power plant. I think that all had insert bearings. It was the Commander engine that use insert mains, and poured babbitt bearings, following a redesign of that engine in 1936-42.

[cstude1]

197584 is not in even in the 1950 price book?

[52-fan]

The wise aXX answer to the title question is; look at them.

I looked, but was not sure. Do the insert type always have tabs to keep the bearing from turning? These do not.

[PackardV8]

Could be wrong, but believe that the Champ engine was an all new concept power plant. I think that all had insert bearings. It was the Commander engine that use insert mains, and poured babbitt bearings, following a redesign of that engine in 1936-42.

Not maybe, definitely wrong. Early Champion engines had babbit rods. It is possible to convert babbit rods to accept insert bearings.

jack vines

[gordr]

Did the change from Babbitt to insert rod bearings coincide with the advent of the 170 engine in 1941, or was it for the Weasel engines? I seem to remember tearing down a Weasel engine that had insert bearings in it.

[Hallabutt]

I humbly bow to the expert engine builder. I was only reporting what I had read long ago, and it made sense. Why Studebaker would have continued with babbitt rods, in a new concept engine, when the President eight had been completely redesigned, for 1936, for inserts, is a mystery to me.

[PackardV8]

I humbly bow to the expert engine builder. I was only reporting what I had read long ago, and it made sense. Why Studebaker would have continued with babbitt rods, in a new concept engine, when the President eight had been completely redesigned, for 1936, for inserts, is a mystery to me.

We'll never know the decision process Studebaker Engineering went through, but it could simply have been at that juncture, babbit was still less expensive than insert bearings.

The more one examines the Champion as a design exercise, it was a brilliant piece of work. It's tiny, light, inexpensive to manufacture, durable (with a couple of exceptions) and had sufficient power for a 2200# car.

i and most of our generation came to sneer at the Champion, because by the time we were buying old Studes, the Champion was being asked to motivate a 3500# car or truck and it just should never have been asked to shoulder that load.

jack vines

[dpson]

You might want to check that part number as the 1934-1946 Chassis Parts Catalog lists 197504 as a Rod Set for Model G & 2G and references note 11, which says "Babbited Type Rods - Used in engines having cylinder head with casting no. 194777."

[ChampionRuss]

You might want to check that part number as the 1934-1946 Chassis Parts Catalog lists 197504 as a Rod Set for Model G & 2G and references note 11, which says "Babbited Type Rods - Used in engines having cylinder head with casting no. 194777."

Measure the ID of the rod big end bore. Compare with a rod journal on the crankshaft OD. If they're the same, it's babbited. If 1/8" off, it's insert. Easy.

[52-fan]

You might want to check that part number as the 1934-1946 Chassis Parts Catalog lists 197504 as a Rod Set for Model G & 2G and references note 11, which says "Babbited Type Rods - Used in engines having cylinder head with casting no. 194777."

Thanks, I'll tell him.

[karl_ct]

How I identify connecting rods such as the re-babbitted rods I have for Studebaker is using the casting numbers on the rods, the earlier Federal Mogul cataloges have a section in the back with connecting rod forging numbers that cover all makes.